Episode Highlights

00:00:14 – Introductions
00:01:32 -Guest Background
00:03:47 – Symptoms of C. Difficile Infection
00:05:41 – Before Thryve
00:07:36 – Why Should We Care About Our Gut  Health
00:10:30 – Making Use of Technology for Health
00:12:06 – What The Present Technology Can Do
00:14:51 – How Relevant Gut Microbiome
00:19:16 – A Glimpse Of How Thryve Pinpoints What You Need
00:21:52 – Importance of a Healthy Gut and the Connection Between the Gut and the Brain
00:27:16 – Thryve Test Process
00:31:10 – Thryve’s Mission
00:34:49 – How To Connect With Richard’s Thryve 


Fitness Guide





Welcome to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast, where you can learn how to improve your diet, lose fat and get fitter in a sustainable and fun way without spending hours in the gym is your host Darren Kirby.

Darren: Welcome back to the podcast, guys. This is the number one podcast for dads in their 40s who want to improve their health and fitness. This is Episode 58. And joining me on today’s show is Richard Lin from Thryve. And we’re going to be discussing healthy and how that can have a significant impact on other areas of our health and well-being. Based in Sunnyvale, California, and established less than a year ago, wellness company Thryve is attempting to revolutionize the way in which individuals understand and interact with their microbiomes. Hi, Richard, thanks very much for joining me on the podcast today. How are you?

Richard: I’m doing great. Thanks for having me.

Darren: No, not at all. So you are out in the U.S., the West Coast or the East Coast?

Richard: West Coast based in California.

Darren: Oh, okay. Wow. Yeah, I should have been there on holiday this year, but unfortunately, due to the pandemic that’s stopped that, but probably all parts of the world,

Richard: Probably a good idea. We have a lot of fires going on right now. So it kind of looks like the world’s on fire in California. Yeah.

Darren: Wow, Ok, that’s that seems to be an annual thing, unfortunately, as well, doesn’t it?

Richard: It gets very hot here. So that’s what happens.

Darren: Yeah, cool. OK, so today we’re going to be obviously talking about gut health. You are the founder of Thryve. And so for the people that haven’t come across yourself and Thryve before, can you give us a bit of background on how you came to Thryve in the first place?

Richard: Yeah, absolutely. So as you know, Richard, the CEO Thryve and we like to call ourselves the twenty three me for the microbiome. And I started this company because about four years ago I took antibiotics and got really sick with these antibiotics. Essentially, they wiped out all the good bacteria in my gut and a very bad bacteria called C. Diff kind of proliferate in my gut and it kills about fifteen thousand Americans a year. And so I went to about three different doctors.

I was a little bit of a morbid experience, but went to multiple different doctors and they said, you’re too young and healthy looking to be sick. I was twenty five at the time and so kind of through that process, I started reaching out to other folks dealing with chronic health problems on Facebook groups and forums. And he said, oh, you have kind of your textbook C. diff journey to antibiotics and get it. So you should probably get that tested. So I got a PCR test done for if it came back positive, they quarantined me because it’s a very contagious disease and got it treated through something called a fecal transplant.

This is where they homogenize stool of a healthy person, put it back into the gut. And so I felt much better after that. But I realize kind of through that journey that multiple people were interested in the microbiome, which is the bacteria, the yeast and the viruses that reside inside and outside our bodies. And they wanted a test to be able to tell them what was going on in these microbes and ultimately how to improve it. And there really wasn’t a good product at that point. So that’s why we started Thryve , which provides a consumer DNA test that looks at your stool or more specifically, the bacteria. And then based on that analysis, we have an app that personalizes recommendations. So we give personalized nutritional information as well as a personalized probiotic supplement that we ship every month.

Darren: Yeah. So I think I think you can get it to come back to your illness. I mean, I’ve never come across that before.So what are the symptoms of that illness that you have? I mean, is it obvious? You mentioned it is very contagious, but is it lack of energy? Is it what kind of symptoms you get?

Richard: Yeah, it’s really interesting because our gut is tied to so many different things in our body, not just in digestion, but a lot of your immunity, your energy levels, autoimmune diseases, depression, anxiety and so forth are all tied to a gut. And so with C. diff, I was going to the bathroom like 10 times a day. Essentially the reason why it kills people is because this bacteria creates toxins, there’s toxins, toxin and B and essentially they cause your cells in your gut to explode. And what ends up happening, it’s very scary. A whole bunch of immune cells come in and try to kill this bacteria. Yeah.

And your body flushes it out through drawing in kind of liquids in your body and mainly water to flush it out through diarrhea. And a lot of folks that die from this dehydrate because it goes to the bathroom. So much so I had that. I had abdominal pain. I cannot digest really any foods. And that was just the digestive symptoms. And I couldn’t sleep. I was probably sleeping two hours, two hours a night for almost a year. That’s pretty bad. And so that that resulted in neurological depression, anxiety and different issues like that, I lost a lot of weight, a lot of muscle mass that I had built up prior.

I was very active before as it was kind of a whole system attack. And the other kind of surprising thing was I started getting autoimmune type symptoms, so I started getting eczema, different patches of skin. I never had eczema my life. And I just started getting eczema on different parts of my body and just very massive fatigue. And so it was a, it was a very traumatic experience, but quite a lot of learning and growing experience.

Darren: Yeah, I can imagine so, obviously. I mean, that’s quite an extreme kind of step to take from you having your illness to then creating Thryve. So what were you doing prescribed then.

Richard: That’s a great question. So originally started in product management for this kind of the software i.t. industry. So I’ve built multi-million dollar product software products for companies like SAP, which powers most of your business software across large industries to startups like the Live, which was recently acquired by Target.

So I’ve kind of had that experience between both large enterprise companies down to startups and really got my foot in the door as a product manager, because in a product management role, you’re working with multiple different organizations within the company.

You’re essentially the hub between all the different organizations to launch a product. And I wanted to do that because I wanted to be a CEO, but I didn’t know how to train myself, to know the skill sets and to learn the soft skills in order to do that. So I figured from product management, probably the best course you’re going to get there. And that’s kind of where I started.

Darren:  Yeah, awesome. But it’s an amazing journey and obviously is very valuable. And, you know, the time that we’re in now. And I don’t I’ve not really joined the dots up as to why, you know, there’s lots of different studies and doctors and companies now that are focusing on the gut microbiome. My hunches around technology and technology is now enabled us to kind of process a lot more data around health conditions and things like that. And obviously, the gut health side of things is for me at least anyway, because I quite actively look at this stuff is quite big.  But, you know, and so if there’s people listening to this that perhaps don’t have any illnesses or don’t have any symptoms and stuff like that, why should we care about our gut health?

Richard:  Yeah, it’s a great question, you know, the way I think about it is everybody wants to live their best life, right? Everybody wants to have a good quality of life, regardless if you’re unhealthy or healthy. And really what we see is, you know, the way technology is moving and the way the science is moving is we’re going from Health 1.0, which is very reactive to how to point out which is more personalized, preventative and predictive.

And in order to do that, the new kind of testing that we have available, whether it’s genetic testing or more specifically for US microbial testing, provides kind of a view of what is your health going to look like in the next five to 10 years. And so it’s important because a lot of the science is starting to show that many chronic illnesses that we see in Western societies have a very different microbial profile across the board from healthy people. And so these things happen years before any of your traditional gold standard labs are going to go out of whack or go out of range and still be able to predict and see longitudinal data for your microbiome is trending toward gives you better inside of knowing, you know, am I, you know, committing to the right lifestyle habits, to diet and so forth, that’s going to be beneficial for me in the long term. You know, we’re going to more longevity and how do we, you know, continue to keep our health as we age. And that’s really where the big promises for healthy individuals.

Darren: Yeah, definitely. And I think for me, it’s like he saw the way that you kind of frame it in its health to point, you know, up until this point, it’s all been reactive and treating, whereas now I believe we’re making the shift towards being proactive. So maintenance and I don’t always use this analogy of a car. Right. So, you know, many of us on an annual basis will have our cars serviced, but none of us. How often do we have our, you know, our cell service? How often do we have a check on ourselves? And this technology in your platform that you’ve created now enables us to do that. And for me personally is super fascinating, because ever since I came on this journey eight years ago and I’ve changed my health now for me, I have a huge appetite as to what other services can I use in order to determine what’s going on inside as opposed to kind of previously, you know, are they taking something? Because we’ve been told it’s good. You know, for example, A Vitamin B or vitamin D, we all know it’s good, but you don’t necessarily know whether or not you actually need it. And I think with the services that you guys provide, you can now really delve deeply into that and you can really get a good picture of what’s going on inside.

Richard:  Absolutely. And the thing I like to add to that is, you know, the traditional way that we’ve looked at health care is, you know, you go to your doctor, he goes to a pretty elementary algorithm where he says, how do you feel, what kind of symptoms they have? And then they try to troubleshoot from the symptoms to the right testing. And even the testing is still looking at the symptoms. You know, if your vitamin levels are out of whack or what’s the root cause of that? Right. Usually they just stop there and just say, I’ll take more vitamin B, but what if the vitamin B is because you have different microbes that are able to produce those vitamins? Right. So the way we’re looking at is how can we get to the root cause so that rather than taking six hundred different tests in order to find out what’s wrong, you take one or two and we’re able to pinpoint a target. Other testing that’s more relevant in order to kind of provide a therapeutic.

Darren: So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that’s really key is it’s getting to the root cause in a much quicker a more direct way, isn’t it so.

Richard: Exactly.

Darren: In terms of the science that now there’s a huge focus on the gut, on the gut microbiome. What would you say is now being understood from a science element about the gut that we previously really didn’t know too much about?

Richard: Yeah, absolutely. So when we think about microbiome, essentially, that term wasn’t really coined to about 10 years ago. Yeah, and the reason why it’s kind of exploded in the past couple of years is because originally we didn’t have the technology to be able to see all the different species of bacteria in the body. But the techniques that didn’t exist, they were there. But the way we would traditionally look at bacteria and more specific health is you have a culture, a petri dish. You put that bacteria in there and you hope that it grows so you can detect the presence of it. But now with DNA testing, we know the exact RNA and DNA of the specific bacteria. We’re able to tell you how many there are in there.

And so because of this new technology and how quickly it’s scaling a computing power for genome testing has gone down faster than Moore’s Law and Moore’s Law. For audiences semiconductor, the price of computing for semiconductors is going down tremendously. That’s why our iPhones and our laptops are getting cheaper as time goes on. But computing power for genome testing has gone down even at a quicker pace. And so it’s pretty exciting because now 10 years ago, it would have taken a supercomputer, you know, multiple decades to process this information. Now you can get it within a week or two. Right.

And so because of this, we’re now starting to get more research. But we are really just at the cusp of kind of the apex of discovery for the microbiome. But a lot of really interesting discoveries are all around these very disparate diseases. Looking at mental health, we can look at somebody with depression or anxiety and we can look at their microbiome and it looks different. They have specific bacteria in there that are more overgrown or deficient and specific, other specific bacteria. And as we kind of look at whether it’s mental health or athletic performance, super sanatoriums, which is another subgroup where people that live over 100 years old, they have a very distinct microbiome compared to somebody that that doesn’t live to that age and skin, hair like better skin, glowing hair like all have different microbiomes. And so the exciting part is, you know, now that we have this technology to see, you know, the thousands, tens of thousands of species, bacteria that were undiscovered before. And we’re tying this to specific outcomes in health. And so this is really what’s been exciting in this realm of science.

Darren: Yeah,it is super fascinating  and there is this kind of information that shed now that says that everybody’s gut is different. So it’s almost like a fingerprint, isn’t it? Your gut microbiome. So do you know or can you explain why that is and how relevant that is?

Richard: Yeah. So when you look at kind of the ranking of bacteria, you know, in biology, there’s different rankings. So there’s phylum to family, genus and species. And essentially what that does is a categorizes big groups of bacteria. And if you think about like the planet Earth, that’s like a phylum and a species as like humans. Right. And most of the time, on the phylum level, most people most of the population has a very similar breakdown just because it’s you know, you’re not drilling down very specifically. But when you get down to the species level of all the different species of bacteria, then it becomes very unique. Like you mentioned, all the bacteria are like a fingerprint. It’s very unique to each person.

It’s kind of like if you were to think about the Amazon rainforest rainforest, it has very high diversity. A lot of animals, a lot of plants, lot trees and so forth is going to thrive better than, you know, a forest is just full of lives. Right. And why this is important is because everyone’s microbial DNA is essentially unique. So the interventions are going to be completely unique to that person. So personalizing what foods are best before you, kind of a very specific use cases.

You know, everyone thinks of vegetables are OK. Yeah, but that’s not true because certain vegetables are digested by pathogens in the gut and then they’ll create toxins in the body. So even though you might be eating a broccoli, it might be healthy for you, for somebody else that’s eating it. It might actually be producing toxins, giving you headaches and all kinds of different symptoms that are detrimental. And so we’re really flipping up the paradigm of, for instance, just just diet specifically, that it’s not just eat keto or eat this. It’s yep. We got to personalize it down to that level in order to give you the best foods, best nutrition and best performance and so forth.

Darren: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And for me, I think that’s super interesting because it’s, you know, like you touched on there and broccoli, you know, if people want to follow what we inverted commas perceive to be a healthy diet, you know, we go for Whole Foods, we go from, you know, foods of all swum, you know, been on earth or grown out of the ground. And it’s interesting, I think somebody else I heard said about keto, everyone goes mad for keto aren’t they.

But actually, for some people, it’s just completely toxic. And but we make this assumption that because everyone else is doing it, it’s right for us. And I think it’s really interesting now that we can pinpoint that. And one thing that I want to touch on, actually, as I said to you just before we started to record, I got my results back from you guys last week. And interestingly, I follow, I won’t call it keto. I follow a high fat diet.

And so I have a lot of butter and I will have, like cream cheese and things like that in my diet. And interesting, my results have told me because of my gut microbiome that I need to stay away from that kind of stuff, which I found super fascinating, because like you just said, you know, for me, it’s all I want to follow. High fat diets, all I’ll grass fed organic butter. But actually the results of my tests said no no no you need to stay away from it because there’s some microbes in the gut, bacteria that’s kind of not quite right or missing.

Richard:  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the way we look at that and there’s multiple other kind of reports in the app. But one of the things I’m assuming you’re alluding to is the metabolism report, which looks at your ability to kind of digest fats, proteins and carbs. And there are specific microbes that, when they’re high in prevalence, are better at helping your body metabolize fats in particular. And so, you know, if they’re if they’re low in count , it becomes potentially a little bit detrimental.

So it’s always interesting to take a look at different labs on top of what we’re offering here. Our are your information labs going up from having a high fat diet? And if so, maybe that might be a cause. But it’s hard to say without the full medical history. And obviously, I’m not a doctor to be able to provide that recommendation. But it’s also very interesting to kind of take a look at that.

Darren:  So, yeah, it is. And then and then obviously, you know, we jump in ahead a little bit here. But, you know, going on from that, then this is where Thryve for me is very different, is that you can then have probiotics tailored for you based on your results And then sent to you, which is again, I think it’s just it’s just going to further kind of pinpoint, isn’t it, like we were talking about before. And instead of going out and using a probiotic in inverted commas, use the probiotic, which is balanced for what you’re lacking in your gut.

Richard: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, if you look at the traditional way to get a probiotic, it’s at your grocery store and store and most people have no idea what’s in a probiotic. We just now, oh, we should probably take a probiotic because it’s good for you. And it’s always interesting if you go to Whole Foods or any kind of grocery store and there’s usually a supplement person there and they really don’t even know what a proprietor’s either. So you’re kind of left wondering, OK, what kind of ingredients are these probiotics?

They actually help. And the way we like to think about it is the testing informs what kind of probiotic you need. So we look at three different things in our algorithm. The first one is, are you overgrown in specific pathogens in the gut? And if so, what? Probiotic strains are best fit to reduce the count of those bad bacteria so probiotics can actually create something called bacteriolysins, which are naturally occurring antibiotics that pinpoint specific bad microbes to reduce them.

And in the second piece is, are you deficient in any good probiotics? And if so, which one strains would you need? And then the third one is a health survey. What are our goals? What are symptoms? And then using all that, we’re able to calculate, you know, these strains are best fit for you. Mm hmm. So I really kind of moves away from guesswork to obviously more pinpointed personalized offering.

Darren:  Yeah, definitely. Which I think is super valuable. So we’ve talked obviously about the details around the guy that got more by and we’ve talked about, you know, diets and maybe what’s perceived to be healthy is not healthy for everybody. But what we haven’t touched on too much yet is, is why is it important for us to have a healthy gut? And I also want to kind of delve into the gut brain connection, the way, you know, that goes between the gut and the brain, because there’s a lot of the talk around the gut being the second brain. So I’d really like to get your take on that as well.

Richard:  Yeah, absolutely, I mean, so it sounds like there’s two questions, the first one is, why is a healthy gut important? Obviously, the science is pointing to multiple different illnesses related to the gut microbiome. It was Hippocrates, the kind of father medicine that coined all diseases begin in the gut. And what he coined is actually coming true now based on kind of the research that we’ve seen. And so, you know, whether it’s digestive problems like IBS, IBD, which is ulcerative colitis and Crohn’s to autoimmune diseases like eczema and so forth, to mental health problems like depression, anxiety to weight gain, diabetes, pre diabetes.

And so you see the whole gamut of chronic illness, which is literally 90 percent of our health care spend. We spent about three point one three point five trillion dollars and in chronic disease management. And so it’s a very obviously a big part of our health. And the microbes show that more and more folks are susceptible to certain chronic illnesses depending on those makeups. And so that’s why it’s so important now, like if we want to tackle and remove chronic illness as a whole, the microbiome is a big component of that. And our second question on the kind of gut brain axis, super exciting research, the gut being the second brain and 90 percent of the serotonin / neurotransmitters are made in the gut. You know, it’s always surprising when people hear that because you normally think most of the serotonin is in your brain.

We know it’s actually in your gut. And like you mentioned, there is a vagus nerve that’s bidirectional between the gut and the brain. And your microbes talk to your brain and they create different metabolites. They interact in the gut and they send those signals back to your brain. And so we’ve seen kind of a new trend in something called Psycho Bionics, which is a new technology of finding specific probiotics that can actually do that communication.

And so we actually have psycho biotic strains in our personalization mix, which we’ve seen case studies for, like autism and depression, depression, anxiety and other kind of neurological problems. So very exciting aspect of targeting the gut to improve the brain. And the flip side is, you know, your brain also talks your gut when you when you’re when you have a big presentation coming up, you’re anxious and you say butterflies in my stomach. Yeah. Interesting enough, it’s your brain talking to your gut. And so I think the next kind of phase in medicine where we’re targeting neurological type illnesses and mood type problems is going to be potentially using the gut as the first kind of line of therapeutics.

Darren: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it’s yeah, I think it is all fascinating stuff and the the I can’t remember what you just said there, the therapeutics that you. 

Richard: Psycho biotics. 

Darren: Psycho biotics. Sorry. Yeah, I’ve not even come across those before. So that’s that’s even something new to me today. So I’ll start researching that. But yeah, I think, I think it is very interesting. And for me, I had Dr Cate Shanahan, who on the podcast a few weeks ago, he done the book about the four pillars and you know, with ADHD, autoimmune diseases and all that kind of stuff that’s happening. It seems to and mental health seems to be increasing around the population.

To me, it just makes perfect sense how all of this is starting to materialize now. And for somebody who doesn’t have a medical background, the logic seems fairly simple to me in so much as particularly in a Western world, we have gravitated towards, you know, foods are not high nutrients, but they’re very calorific dense. They’re cooked in bad ways with bad inflammatory fats. And all this kind of stuff is very processed.

And so when you understand how the gut communicates with the brain and now we have all of these conditions, for me, it just makes more and more sense that the science is now backing up. The kind of the logic behind it and I think is super exciting. And I think, like you said, you know, this is where we’re entering a whole new kind of Medicine 2.0 world where all this information that’s available to us.

Richard: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, like you mentioned, mental health is obviously a very big trend, both biological response to that, and it’s kind of the food sources and so forth. And I just think also at the same time, there’s just a bigger mind. Sure, it can be very much that mental health has always been an issue, but it hasn’t really been brought to the forefront. And so now more folks are kind of seeing that as a trend. And, you know, they’re all converging. Right. So definitely a very big problem to solve that. You know, society really hasn’t looked at seriously until probably like five years ago, so.

Darren: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not super cool. So in terms of, you know, I’ve touched on a little bit about the test that I did. But you want to just explain to the listeners at home how the kind of the test works. I mean, I got two little boxes sent, three of and you want to just explain to them how they can do the test and what happens?

Richard: Yeah, absolutely. So we’re direct to consumer. And so if you go on our website of your www.thryveinside.com, you’ll be able to purchase a kit. But essentially, you know, we sent a kit to you and it’s a stool sample. So it’s a little piece of stool off your toilet paper. You get that off, put in our tube, swirl it around, and then you send it to back to our lab. And about one or two weeks we give you a report back. And what’s happening in the back end, essentially, is we have these big sequencing machines.

They’re based on the sequencing machines. And what they do is they literally grab all the bacterial information. So all the RNA and we sequence in it. What gets outputted is a text file. It’s a super large text, all five gigabytes of text. And it’s just letters. ATGC, and that’s how we match the RNA with what potential bacteria is in the body, at what percentages in the body.

And then that goes through our algorithm and APIs and it shows up in an app. So we have a web app. You go online, you can log in, and we were able to provide you a robust view of tens of thousands of species of bacteria in the body. We also categorize all the different bacteria. So, you know, one thing that’s missing for potentially other reports out there is to tell you what bacteria in the body are, what percentages, but they don’t tell you why they matter.

And so we actually we close that chasm through natural language processing and machine learning and we’re able to summarize fifty thousand research articles on the microbiome. And so we can say this bacteria before bacterium is a good microbe. And here’s the health benefits and here’s the description and so on and so forth. So we have all this robust data on each bacteria and we’re able to map that out and say, OK, looks like out of these 20 bad bacteria and out of these ten good bacteria, you’re deficient or overgrown at X percent compared to the healthy average.

What’s the recommendation now? Right. So it’s not just telling you what’s going on. It’s here’s what to do about it. And that second part is personalization in terms of the nutritional aspects of what foods can decrease bad bacteria, what foods can increase good, good bacteria. And then we also have the probiotic, like I mentioned earlier, that’s really three step algorithms that we have. And the goal there is once we get the analysis, we give you the recommendation. You get your probiotics within one to three months on the program, you should see a significant improvement in how you feel. And so that’s kind of the full customer journey, if you will, using our product.

Darren: And so, like I said, you know, I got my report and 80 percent of my bacteria is good, 20 percent wasn’t good. And then you have this really cool little it’s almost like a questionnaire that you go through once you’ve done your report in terms of what you want your outcome to be, don’t you?  And then from there, then you can then you guys select the right probiotic and that gets sent through to us.

Richard: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Darren: So so yeah. I mean, for me, you know, like I said, it is super exciting time. And I think that it’s kind of a bit of a cliche, but you don’t know how good it feels until you feel really good. And I think a lot of people are kind of perhaps wandering around in their daily lives thinking how they feel is currently the best that they can actually feel. One of the things I would say to people listening to this is that once you do start to get your diet dialed in and you get your bacteria in your gut, you know, in a level that should be the the the kind of results, the net results of that are meant to mentally mental clarity, energy levels. You know, overall health is just quite profound. And obviously, you know, Richard, you are testament to that.

Richard: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think what’s important for your audience, like you mentioned, whether it’s more energy. Mental health, athletic performance, I mean, there’s definitely not only probiotic strains that help in all those, whether it’s athletic performance with improving, reducing exercise fatigue and improving performance by reducing lactic acid build up. You know, there’s mental health with probiotics that specifically target the gut to the brain and so forth.

So it’s a very like you mentioned, it’s very exciting because as you start to see folks improve their health and, you know, kind of the feedback is why I didn’t know I could feel like this. Right. Yeah. And that’s kind of what that’s our mission, right. Where our goal is to improve the quality of life for individuals, even healthy people. Yeah. To kind of get them to the next step, even if they’ve never experienced it themselves.

Darren: Yeah, I think that’s that’s that’s a really important point to point out. And that is optimizing yourself. And it’s not like, you know, you you are trying to optimize yourself into being a performance athlete, but you are just trying to optimize your health so that you actually you’re making a conscious effort to to basically avoid any serious illness.

And it’s always prevention is always better than cure as well as we’re finding out now. Right. And, you know, again, I use the analogy of the car. You know, you probably spend more servicing your car a year than you do actually servicing your body. So, you know, the price of the tests and all of the other testing mechanisms that are available in the market now of relatively inexpensive, when you compare that to essentially your life, you know, and living a healthy, active and happy and energetic life, really. So that might sound a bit grand, but I genuinely believe that these types of services, you’re providing them products and that can genuinely give you that.

Richard: Absolutely. And the other thing that I’ll add as well that kind of builds on that experience is the psychological point of view where, you know, you want to improve your health. That’s obviously the first thing you want to optimize. But the second part is you also want to know what’s actually going on. So now with these, you know, with what’s driving potentially all the tests, as well as being able to track the data and have a quantifiable way to know your improvement. Right. It’s it’s one thing to say, for instance, when you’re losing weight. But if you see it on a scale as well, that really adds to the kind of the motivation and continue, you know, healthy living behavior that I think everybody wants.

Darren: Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, we perhaps will start at the wanting to lose weight or fat level, but actually, ultimately, long term, it’s about long term, good, sustainable health and longevity, like you said at the beginning of the recording released. Just being able to if you. Yeah, we don’t know how long we’re going to be around, but if you’re going to be around, you might as well live in a much nicer illness freeway as opposed to what we’ve seen, perhaps some of, you know, elder family members go through. We now are in a, I think, a unique place in time that we have this ability to to be able to get this information.

Richard: Yeah, absolutely.

Darren: So, Richard, before we wrap up, is there anything that I didn’t ask you that you feel I should have asked you which would benefit the listeners?

Richard:  Yeah, I don’t think you asked me where they can find us, so we always can find us, but I’d be happy to answer that one so you can actually go to our website it’s www.thryveinside.com. We also you can also find us on all the social channels, whether it’s Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn @thryveinside. So.

Darren: Awesome. OK, and then you personally, have you got any books or any kind of socials where people can connect with you?

Richard: Yeah, I mean, for socials, you know, we generally just go to @thryveinside and I don’t have a book yet, but I’m working on it.

Darren: Ok, awesome. OK. I’ll look forward to that. But, you know, it’s been great talking to you today, Richard. We will put all of the links for thryve inside in the show notes, and there’ll be a link to thryve inside from the products page on our website. But thanks very much for taking the time out today. I know you’re a very busy guy to come and chat to us, and I look forward to catching up with you again in the future.

Richard: Absolutely. It’s been a total pleasure. And thank you for having me.

WHY DO DADS NEED A HEALTHY GUT WITH RICHARD LINDarren: Thanks for listening to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please subscribe. And I would really appreciate if you could leave a review on iTunes or the things mentioned in the website will be in the show notes and a full transcription is over at Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast.