Episode Highlights

00:06:16  Importance of day to day mobility
00:09:20 Having right habits and awareness is the key
00:12:42  How the Human Programme works
00:15:01  Pillars of the Human Programme
00:18:35  Importance of breathing properly
00:26:41  Dealing with our patience
00:35:46 Do injuries affect flexibility?
00:43:18  Removing distractions
00:48:00 5 Key takeaways from the episode


Fitness Guide





Welcome to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast, where you can learn how to improve your diet, lose fat and get fitter in a sustainable and fun way without spending hours in the gym. Here’s your host, Darren Kirby.

Darren: Welcome back to the podcast, guys. This is the number one podcast for dads in their 40s who want to improve their health and fitness. This is Episode 94. And on today’s show, we’re going to be talking with Ollie and Elliot, who are the founders of the human programme. The human programme is a holistic and pioneering performance lifestyle program designed to cultivate deeper human connection and optimization through an enhanced understanding of your body and your natural ability to move. But before we get into today’s show, I want to take a moment to mention the show sponsors athletic greens. Athletic Greens is formulated with 75 vitamins and minerals carefully selected for high potency and bioavailability. Athletic greens because it’s in a powered format is more bioavailable than traditional pills by supplements. It’s kind of like a nutrient insurance policy. Now, as you know, I’m a big advocate of getting nutrients from real food, but with our active lifestyles, it isn’t always possible. I take athletic greens on a daily basis to ensure I’m getting all of the nutrients I need. An athletic Greens is offering the listeners of the show 10 percent of their first order. So if you head over to athleticgreens.com/fitterhealthierdad to get 10 percent of your first order. So let’s crack on with today’s show.

Hey, Ollie and Elliot, how are you?

Elliot: Yeah, we’re very well. Thanks, Daryn. How are you doing?

Darren: Yeah, very well, thank you. And I’m very pleased to have you on the podcast today. And Ollie was back on the podcast. He was episode twenty nine. And before, obviously, you and all you got together earlier, but yeah. Super excited to have you on today. I’m really keen to dove into the human program and let everybody, all the listeners, know about all the good stuff that you did. But before we do that, can we get a little background on both yourselves?

Ollie: Absolutely. Of course. Thanks, Darren Kirby, for having us on it. It’s always a pleasure. And so for myself, I guess the journey started from a young age with different types of movement methodologies. And it was a mixture of theater and dance, but also rugby as well, quite extensively. And then I think having more of a more of a elaborate kind of view on moving even from a youngster, I think definitely has shaped the way I feel about movement now and about how I coach movement and how I like to see people move in general, which is more expressive, less regimented, more free flow and more fluid. And then having been exposed to rugby, quite intense, quite intensely from a young age nine to go go on to play full time rugby, that all that creativity and all that expressiveness was drilled the other way, really. So I think of stopping rugby and then kind of realizing that, you know, the body is an amazing thing, which we can do and we can move it in seven different ways. I guess that’s been my goal and passion over the last decade. The last five years full time is to help people move better, more pain free and really just enjoy the feeling of that and feeling more relaxed and moving as well. Yeah. And and then obviously, you know, we’ve come together to do a given program and all that and talk a little bit about his background.

Elliot: My background is very similar to Ollie’s. It was very much rugby focused, heavy S.A.C. from age 16 to 23. And that was kind of my passion and my drive for everything was that unfortunately I had two, three hip operations by the age of 23, also an ACL as well. So that kind of led me to really rethink about the future and what I wanted to do and also longevity of my body. So from then sort of stop, stop the rugby and went into once one coaching, that’s around 12 years ago. Now I have my own space initially just outside of Guildford, and I’m sorry I got there for four years. And that’s kind of where I started to explore a lot of the movement and the body weight training. And I think through my own operations, it really led me to kind of dove in and understand my own body a little bit more. So, you know, there’s no greater teacher than pain. And that was kind of what led me into it. So that’s where some sort of testing, you know, and exploring different things with movement and with body weight and just controlling my own body, you know, opens up a lot. So I had that for four years. And that’s pretty much where some dived into a lot of gymnastic strength stuff. So the rings and balancing and. More GST focus. We saw that and then moved up to London, in the meantime, I saw another business with another business partner left movement, and we opened that space last year or year before, again, you know, sort of all aligning with what sort of land so far with the movement and the focus and then sort of heavy influenced by mobility and flexibility as well, you know, and just correcting sort of poor daily movement patterns.

And that’s kind of what fascinates me most. And then from there, left there last year for various reasons. And that kind of brought me in all these years early on in myself. I mean, we saw training, what, five years ago, let’s say, together and just sort of, you know, sort of playing around, sort of exploring various movements. And obviously, our friendship grew and grew and grew. And then that’s kind of led us to the beginning of the human program last year. It kind of worked out well with everything sort of going into lockdown and in many on line, like it’s kind of a little bit of a blessing in disguise. And, you know, I think with the last year when so many people going online day in, day out, that really gave us an opportunity to expose a business and expose our vision and what we want to do further down the line. So, yeah, that’s kind of led us to where we are now.

Darren: Yeah, I think he’s. I think he’s also awesome to touch on your point about what you said about pain is a great teacher and I truly believe that. I think I have come to discover you guys by myself, but I actually put my back out, funnily enough, last year. And at that point, you actually really are aware of how important just General Day-To-Day Mobility is. I have a lot of people listening to this who will be coming to fitness. Hats off to having to break from their early 20s or for the first time. And, you know, I always use the running analogy because you see so many people out running now. But the way the wonderful shapes you see people running in, you move properly. And I know I said my car, by the way, for a guy that I see every Sunday because he’s hunched over like this hundred, you just see you really your mobility is all out of whack. So I think what you guys are doing is hugely interesting, because if you guys listen to this guy with some of your content online and Instagram stuff and move and try to move you guys, you’ll be very quickly surprised at how inflexible in Mobile become throughout our daily routines. Yes. In terms of what you’re doing with the human program and because it’s all encompassing. Why? I mean, when it came on before, we were just talking about biomechanics and functional mobility based so much more than that massively.

Elliot: And just to sort of go back to what you said there, done as well, like, you know, so much mobility as well is, you know, we’re coming to an era now of devolving right where we are less and less active with more and more sedentary. There’s biomechanically where we’re getting worse and worse, especially this part of the world. So for that is awareness, isn’t it? And this is kind of a big, big pillar of the human program, is our general awareness of our daily movement patterns. Right. And that can come down. You can break that into movement. You can break that into posture. You can break it down into just anything. Right. This is kind of what we want to do. The human program was to basically take a step back, you know, take a step back from fitness, broaden the lens. Now, what is the makeup of optimal living for a human being? Well, we know it’s broken down into an accumulation of many, many things. It’s not just one thing. Right. So I think for us to take a step back and kind of a lot of it is taken as well from Eastern philosophy, stuff like work as well. The importance of sleep, like in environmental conditioning is a huge thing as well. You know, with the ice and the heat, it’s I think I read the other day where it overheated, under-stimulated and overfed. That’s a nutshell. Yeah, a lot of it is. It’s reeducating. It’s what we’ve done so far is got us to a certain point and it’s fantastic. But fitness is kind of on its way out.

It’s the air of wellbeing. People want to know more, understand more about themselves. They want you to know, sort of I think the longevity thing is becoming more prominent as well. But yes, especially myself, overloading ourselves daily with too much stress, smashing ourselves to bits right through various means of training. But it doesn’t need to be like that. Like what is the long game? Where is the education about the long game? So for us, it really is it’s really educating people in a way that they understand themselves better, you know, and these various disciplines do that and take the breathwork, for example, like that should be the number one thing that we should all learn in school, right, is how to control our breath, because if we can control our breath, we can make decisions from a much better, calmer state of mind. Now, there’s no education with any of this, right. As it got on right to life skills, it just pushed to one side and is for you learning a different way. So myself, it’s very much a right. Let’s use this as an opportunity. Let’s provide people with this toolbox system of these various disciplines that we use for the make up of a human. And then it’s literally just having great habits because you have good habits, you’re disciplined. And if you can maintain that consistency with it, then that’s kind of what we’re trying to do, is just ingrain those that have a good way of living, that good way of being. And again, it all comes down to awareness.

Darren: Yeah, I think I think habits and awareness is so, so important, isn’t it? Because, you know, often you may be if you want to get fit where you want to get fit, you want to improve your life in general, the instant man approach, the ego gets fired up. Right. And then we go gung ho to kind of lift as many heavyweights as we can and all the rest try to run 10k and we come out and we bend unbuckled and in a much worse position than when we first started. I think that, you know, that’s the way it’s supposed to be. You know, you’re supposed to be like that when you’re fit and happy. And actually what you guys are saying is, no, it’s not like that, come back to your roots, come back to you as a human and then start to rediscover that destiny.

Ollie: And I think, you know, I think as coaches and also just as people, we’re constantly trying to manage it and let it stress in general. And it’s a stress management mindset every day now, isn’t it? It’s yeah, it’s not overdoing. One thing too much is not doing too much movement. It’s not doing too much physical training or not doing enough. And that’s fine in this this, you know, this cliche of this balance. But it is so true and it’s and it’s an individual balance as well. I think some people respond differently to different cues and stresses and stimuli, and I think that will only become more apparent from more education. And that doesn’t mean that we’re reinventing the way that. So we’re just not giving people really a principle first approach to their fitness and health and making sure they are in the best condition mentally to live every single day to the best of their ability. And not that’s not just Monday to Friday. Have a weekend off, come in Monday, get back on the treadmill and do more weights in this repetitive pattern of punishing, overtrained and underrated underrating.

And it’s the cycle and it’s the societal pressure to achieve more. Is that all the time it must look onto Instagram, which is connected to so much more to fitness health. But it’s also made us very, very insecure in some ways as well. And we beat us up because we’re comparing ourselves. And it’s that the comparison is the face of joy, because in a way, we’re in this state of hate. may you see this and he’s that. And it’s this, this comparative mindset. And with the human program, I think we’re trying to remove the ego first, because once the ego dissolves properly, people can really relax and go, you know, well, there wasn’t much pressure in the first place. Was that because the pressure doesn’t really exist? That is just us as humans trying to be more aware of yourself, you know? And so, yeah, it’s a super interesting thing. And I think for us, it’s really powerful that we can help people and give people a platform to achieve what they need to achieve, I think.

Darren: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it’s always almost a reapproach. Nate, from the inside out. Isn’t it really great resetting your ego, resetting your perspective? And I completely agree with what you are saying in terms of life skills. This is a I don’t want to disappear off down a rabbit hole, particularly with children. I mean, I’ve got a teenage boy and having that life skills, having an understanding of breath, you know, there’s so much challenges with mental health in schools right now because kids don’t have the basic fundamental tools we stress. Like you said, the only thing we had this discussion before about the highlight reel of social media and everything else. Kids are just wired into this stuff now and they believe that that’s life and it’s just not. And when challenges get thrown at them, they just can’t deal with it. Ultimately, this is not what how it is on Instagram, supposed to be all happy and full of money and all this kind of stuff. And it’s not reality. But like I said, I don’t want to disappear off down the rabbit hole in that. But in terms of what you guys are doing with the human program and how you break it down. If you’ve got somebody coming to you, maybe like a middle aged guy like me, where where would you guys start? How would you assess and analyze what to start with these people?

Ollie: I think always with the breath. So if you cannot control your breath, then be expected to control your body. You know, that is relatable to everything. The better oxygen, the better carbon diet soda utilization is relatable to everything we do. So I think that is our number one pillar. It’s the most powerful, transformative thing that you could give someone is to learn that and learn the different protocols. But you say dealing with calmness under pressure is something that we’re just not very good at anymore. So that is always kind of number one. And then I guess sort of into movement from there is our probably our second pillar, you know, broken down into probably hit shoulder, spine, analyzing slight movement screen, see how people move, see how if there’s any imbalances where they are. And it’s just configuring all the time with movement, you know, it’s just rebalancing that left and right side also dominant and it’s just getting that information. Feedback has been lost between the right and the left. So that’s probably the second thing that we look into. And then I guess some.

Elliot: Yeah, I mean, I think like I said, I think the breathing mechanics are so important and I think so many of us are mouth brave, especially when we sleep with our mouths open. So we wake up with a dry mouth. And that’s a really big indication that we all breathe. And now we have a poor relation of carbon dioxide, which is this internal stress messenger. And I think the more we can start to use the nose to breathe on a daily basis, then we’re going to go into a calmer state physically and mentally, and we’re going to go more into the parasympathetic branch or the total reflex of the nervous system. And then we’re going to allow our bodies to be more in the kind of calmer, more relaxed state, you know. And I think if we’re not doing high intensity exercise, such as weight training or sprinting, then there is no real reason to use the mouth to breathe. You know, I think if we sat here talking softly and quietly and we just walk into the shop and there is no real reason to use the mouth, because when you use the mouth, you’re stimulating a response and you’re going inside, or you would trigger a new sympathetic state, which is important to trigger but doesn’t need to be triggered. When you’re looking at your emails, when you’re looking at your phone and and that’s what technology does, you know, it drives the sympathetic state it because it wants to get you excited.

And the algorithm now is so powerful, it really creates this mind massive dichotomy. And then the more you trigger the algorithm, the more your mouth craves your body moves. And this is stress the whole time. So people have looked at fitness before a six hour a day approach. Or if I eat this and really it’s not every single second of the day, it’s how your size, how you breathe is how you think and your thoughts are. Obviously, you’ve seen what we post a lot about the mind and the mindfulness side of it, because the mind is obviously so important in terms of your instruction to move forward. And if you’re having this loop and you’re breathing poorly, then your body’s in distress and you can do the best exercises in the world from preha Rehov flexibility. You could know everything, really, but unless you’re ready to sort of accept the change in your breathing when you’re ready to relax and move forward and it’s just a block. And personally I had this because five years ago after rugby, I delved into mobility and flexibility and I did see muscle bodies and I did all these amazing courses and I was still hitting a brick wall.

I can understand, even though I was doing the “best exercise in the world” and the systems. And what I didn’t address was my breath and I didn’t know that my breathing was actually holding me back. So all my thoracic stiffness or my joint information or my thoughts, all these things, because of manifestation and physical stress in the body. So I think now the both of us have gone through this process quite intensely, I think now it’s our duty and it’s our purpose to hand it down to everyone else and to say, you know what, you can do it and you can achieve your goals. They can be far less stressful while you’re in your goals year. When it does start, it starts and finishes with the breath and it’s a nice and calm way of breathing in a slow, deep breathing cycle and getting oxygen down into these lower levels of the lungs. Will the perfusion, the able to really do its thing for the capillary wars and ultimately our bodies properly. And not only comes from using the mouth, the nose to breathe more, and the more we breathe fast, it’s just it’s just it’s just it’s blocking naturally. It’s not allowing us to move forward.

And the importance of it. Yeah.

It has been a crazy serial arsonist numerous times before. I’ve had only you and I think it is part of your program. And, you know, it’s funny how in twenty twenty one or twenty twenty, you talk to people about brilliant breastwork and they look like you’re absolutely nuts. You always will be dead if you don’t properly notice. He said this, that I was at a cycling club and it was a cold morning and we would be him climbing and the guys were just concreted. And I look back and every single one of them was maltreated. On top of that, I was like, oh, shut your mouth and briefly your nose. And they looked at me as if I was nuts. Yeah. I think the science behind it is quite deep and uncomplicated. Actual practice of it is relatively straightforward. You just look

Very much like this, at least interestingly, into meditation. So meditation, you know, we’re so conditioned to think that it’s sitting still. We’ll see you back straight and pay attention. This was not like you can find meditation and reading books. You can find meditation and move and you can find it in anything you do. But it’s that state of mind, isn’t it? It’s the ability to be so engrossed, so involved with what you are doing there in that very moment that she meditation, you know, so with all these different disciplines, like each thing is, is a meditative practice. You know, it’s just finding that and it’s just throwing yourself completely so into it that nothing else is nothing external is that you are just completely focused. We call it focus play, you know, something like flow stay, which I’m sure you done as well as like you know, when you as I say, you are so involved in that moment, like it’s so fluid, it’s nothing static about it, you know, and that’s where we try and especially with the movement side of things is keep it like that, you know, like jujitsu or, you know, like something that is very fluid movement, Lokomotiv or soft macro or capoeira like that there.

That’s the interesting stuff, because what it does is it takes us back to our childhood. Right. It takes us back to that crawling around on our hands, forgetting about everything else. It’s just there and it’s just enjoyment. And that’s been lost with training and fitness and movement, like it’s just not there. It’s seen as still such a chore. Right to go. Jamul, it’s like I have to do X, I have to do it or you don’t like it. It’s the same with anything in life. Do you enjoy it? But there’s no there’s no options or not enough information pushed onto people to understand that, you know, and I think that’s why body weight is so important, because you’re connecting so much at the same time, you’re expressing all the time and you’re forgetting about anything else. You just get lost in movement and in the moment. And it’s a beautiful thing to watch, you know, and that’s that’s kind of where the human program is leading. It’s like it is a very meditative program of self discovery.

Darren: Yeah, I think I think that’s so important, isn’t it? It’s like you said there about the ability to play as adults. We lose that. And if you look at children like 18 months to two years old, the way that they move when you appreciate real movement is just incredible. You know, the squats, they can do the way they can crawl around. And you people listen, this might think we’re crazy, but, you know, if you try and move the way that they move, I guarantee you most people listen, this won’t be able to do that. Well, it’s obviously on a new guy is slightly different because I am generally in awe in the way that you guys move around the mats and stuff like that, because it’s just when you just try to do I mean, I, I have a stretching routine. I do every morning. I’m still nowhere near as much as I’d like to be. But you have a different appreciation for how the body gets immobile, doesn’t it, when you can’t move properly,

Elliot: Massively, massively.

Ollie: I think I just think we’ve all been through cycles. And, you know, I think of repetitive movement and I think repetition of the same pattern isn’t bad for us. However, doing the same pattern over and over again with physical passes or mental passes creates the same result. You know, and I think that’s why, you know, take the classic squat, for example. I think obviously for so many years we were worried about the knees hovering over the toes or the knees. Cummins about this or that or the feet not being perfectly aligned. And yes, I know that’s completely a fair statement to make if you’re loading the body, if you’re if it’s a beginner. But really, if we took it on its head and we said, let’s just move different ways safely, slightly off different ways, and then when you are forced into those positions, your body has been exposed to different ways to move. And that is like a field approach. And then it becomes more like that. It becomes more natural. Then it becomes more expressive. And then you get all that fluidity. But it does. It won’t happen if we just follow the A to Z, which is what people want to follow because they think that’s unfortunately that’s what they think will always be the way. And that that has a place, of course, structure program and has a very impressive place in progress, of course. But for everybody, everybody, regardless of your goal, there should be some element of play or just no structure, basically no structure in your week where you would just go, you know what, I’m not going to structure anything. I’m just going to be confident with my own body and I’m going to move it safely in different ways and have fun

Elliot: With that as well. Like variety is something else that just isn’t encouraged. You know, it’s very much and fitness is very good at it. Like is one way or the other. You’re right. You’re wrong. Yeah. The key the human body needs variety like it thrives on it and it craves it constantly. But it is also very well that it is that repetitive movement like you take something like ice skating or professional ice skating that’s such a specific movement that they’re going through. They are not designed to do that. It is not good for the human body to do that. But, you know, as you say, it’s for a specific reason. But anything that can expand not only the mind, but the body at the same time, obviously it’s going to do it good. You know, it’s opening up. It’s allowing you to explore different things and to explore your body. And, you know, this is just very well that something like dance is very interesting because there’s no attachment to it. It’s just letting go. It’s just expressing your energy and your emotion is kind of fear of who’s like, you know, what did you just do whatever you want. And that’s kind of where it needs to get to that level of understanding of just being able to let go and just see who is capable of doing without that structure to it, because we just don’t do it enough.

Darren: Now, you’re right. And I think he comes back to your other point about we evolved and we definitely have evolved. Right. We have these things in our faces. And obviously lockdown has been kind of magnified that you’re sitting down, you’re sitting on the sofa, you’re sitting in a position for hours and hours and hours. We’ve been looking at this electronic device. Right. And you’re just not moving at all. And that kind of brings its own challenges and immobile ways of living. So what I kind of wanted to ask you is once you’ve got people that come to you into the breathwork and understanding how to breathe correctly and where did you then take it from there? Because something that I realized is that as much as I wanted to become more flexible, I don’t know whether it’s a male thing again. But you become very impatient. Right. And you want to do a stretch and you want to move. And it kind of I think the old gym mentality comes back so they and I can break away. And you’re just not right. I just take time to deal with that.

Ollie: It’s just interesting to sell that quickly. Directoire, I like we are a sovereign nation. Do we like it as well? We’re in a world that is so fast paced that we’re constantly trying to keep up with it. The slower pace is the longevity. You know, that’s kind of the direction that we need to go. But I’ll only answer your question.

Elliot: I mean, I think it’s impatience. I think we all struggle with that. It’s just like a human thing, really. It’s a twenty first century thing is that if we want to do things yesterday and we wanted our strategies to be the best and we want our bodies to be the best and, you know, I think we have to we have to be more honest about how we stretched our whole life, how we really looked after a body for that long enough to warrant these things. And I think for myself especially, I think David would be so immobile and then having to literally just start again. It taught me a lot. It taught me how to be patient because I was always in a rush and I always wanted things in a rush. And when you lift weights your whole life, you follow a certain kind of pattern where you go up every week in terms of the way or the movement and you get this slow progression. We’re stretched thin. It’s a completely different entity because it’s your mind, what is your body? And it’s everything in between that as well. And you know what you eat, how you sleep the time of the day, you stretch the length of the stretch. Is it all these things factor in your gut health to show how more flexible you are? I know if I’m more stressed and I’m doing the same stretches, I’m not going to achieve the same range of motion as if I’m that stressed.

That’s what I think doing in a breath protocol before stretching is a really powerful thing to do and you can do within stretching or static passive stretching do in contrast. So that’s two seconds in through the nose. Three seconds out is a really good way to tune yourself into the stretch. And for anyone listening who wants to do more static passive stretching, choose less stretches but have them for longer and the minimal time to see connective tissue and connective tissue change in the architectures change properties around two minutes per. We don’t need to be doing loads of stretches, but that’s time to choose the strategies that hold them for longer. And then obviously the next level up from that would be to combine passive strategy and with asymmetric strategy in an active direction. And then that combination between passive letting go and then also creating and strengthening the tissue is a very, very powerful way to create more range of motion because you’re accessing a greater threshold in the greater limit, a greater ceiling as search for flexibility and then you’ll provide strength. So, again, it’s not putting things into a box. It’s very it’s trying to be clear. We go with definitions as a coach. And I think that’s why we’re very focused on the course this time around that we’re going to have. Don Van Zandt, who’s a leader in flexibility, educates his coach, the water ballet, ENTP type one.

No, he’s a science peer-reviewed, evidence-based research on flexibility on the subject of flexibility. And I think it’s a very misunderstood subject, mobility, and flexibility. And they actually can be interchangeable, but they also write different things as well. And I think courses like AFIC have created acronyms in the union within the industry. And I think our job, not just respectability, is to make it easier for people to digest and to really just understand the core basis of each segment of being more human, which is having more flexibility, having more strength, having bad breath control, having more awareness in the South and having the correct information from people who we believe are at the top of their game. And that’s like you mention yourself so the students who can be on our courses are always going to take the breath. You take the environmental conditioning. So there’s a whole host of people from osteopaths to doctors to gymnastic coaches to movement coaches to career coaches. And then it’s just, I guess the main idea, it’s I don’t think we can go by ourselves. And now we want to box it up and give it to whoever wants to really be challenged. But also, it is great to have a broader lens on their own coaching in their own lives as well.

Ollie: Yes, I think just to add on to that as well, like it really is, the more you understand yourself, the more you understand other people. And there’s not enough of an emphasis on self work and the importance of and this is kind of this is the discipline that myself trying to apply every day is embodying what we’re trying to coach, what we’re trying to put out there to be the human program. We can be as much of it as we can within that allows us to understand the other people and their needs, their requirements a lot better and from a lot, but not a better position as well. So, yeah, it really does start with number one. Yes. And that always needs more emphasis on the importance of that.

Darren: Yeah, I agree. I think that’s okay. But understanding yourself and it’s taken me a long time to get to this stage and I start to understand what’s happening. I think when you do that, you can understand others and what others are going through and you can be more compassionate, more aware, supportive of everything else. And I just think. Yeah. And to come back to your other point about what you said about the fitness industry loves to box things up nicely. I think you guys are doing it. You kind of blow the box apart and all these different elements in and, you know, sign what we are, in essence, coach or wavefunction. We know, this is what you should do. That’s it. You’re saying? No, it’s a holistic approach. The way that you can live and effectively is a more subfield life, isn’t it? Because I want you to do what you can do better. You can breathe, but you can all these real patients. And every single time my side is filled with the same breath we do with that stuff, we don’t do it the way that we designed to do it.

Ollie: And that’s it. And all sorts of education, that’s kind of where we want to sort of drive the business is that is to be like a leading educator in, as we said at the beginning, the importance of having these necessary life skills, you know, teach us to, as I said, understand ourselves better than that for others. But, yeah, it’s I think for us and sort of the focus with where we’re going is you say like the next generation is a very important thing for us. And down the line kids are something that we really love to explore and start sort of educating that younger generation on having how to deal with these life situations. But in a calmer place, you know, in a much more educated and a much more confident place, like, I think confidence is something that’s been so far removed from us. So when it’s it needs to be reinstalled. And I think that’s the best thing about these things. I mean, the ice as well as something that’s so powerful, you know, try and sort of integrate that every single day. Doing an ice bath, and that has been something that has taught me so much about myself in the last year, more than probably anything else, you know, and where’s the education about the importance of doing that? Yes, it’s hard, but if you want to grow in life, you’ve got to go through the discomfort. You’re not going to get anywhere from living a comfortable life. But we’re taught and we’re conditions. That’s what we should chase. Well, actually, if you go through and you go through these various things, you’re going to come out in a much, much more open way. You look at things with a wider lens and say you understand yourself a little bit more. And that’s what it needs to be. It’s kind of nice to give people their own power back through it, through education. So, yeah, that’s kind of us up for us and our future. That’s where it needs to sort of head into that next generation.

Darren: Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah. I mean I could have a whole podcast on that and the next generation and prepare them for just general life or not even adult life, just preparing them to act and respond in different ways. But in terms of the injury side of things, I mean when because a lot of guys I work with, you know, that they might have knee injuries, they might have back injuries. And so the perception is that if they’ve got an injury, then they can’t be flexible, they can’t get more mobile. But I would suggest that that’s probably not the case right

Elliot: There going on. Yeah. I mean, I think injuries typically always happen when there’s the but the stresses exceed the load and where, where, where we deal with the demand of our bodies of too much basically and how we prepared to properly. So the stress has gone from zero to one hundred very quickly, whether that’s I want to do a marathon, I’m going to start running 10K a week or just run around like myself. Actually, I started skateboarding this year and have done it for 16 years. And ideally I never really have my kids not set because I’ve gone from no self, you know, and that’s and it’s humbling because we’re not invincible and preventative measures, which, you know, I put everything into that box. And that said, your nutrition, your mentor and your physical consumption, and your ability to self care your joints more every day and stretch more and breathe better, all these preventative measures help us out when we do get injured, which it is, and unfortunately inevitable for a lot of us then where our bodies and nervous systems can deal with, I guess, shock slightly easier. And it’s not that shocks are a bad thing for the body. It’s that we’re not internally ready for the shock. And I think that if we can build a hardwired almost like a really powerful system, that when we do get injured, we have a good toolset straight away that we can just go straight into and utilize. And I think it’s again, it’s been injured and like you said, about the knees in the hands of people as we get slightly older.

And I think, again, it’s just a lack of free movement and it’s a lack of really letting the body experience different things. And even if you’re weight training, there’s no excuse that you should not be included in some form of movement, whether that’s more stretching or mobility or, you know, if you’re doing a loaded exercise in the superset, you should be looking at doing an offset movement. You should be looking at something to go in a reverse way because we’ve all been there. We’ve all done that program. And I know stretching it involved. We get to that plateau or injury or inflammation or lack of range of motion point. We go, why is it my progress going on? While the reason is that we haven’t balanced and it’s just been one way. So I think that’s why as the human program, we’re trying to take a bite sized chunk of everything because nothing really has more importance than the other, because everything integrates properly, harmoniously, then the overall result, longevity wise, is much more fulfilling because that’s like going a hundred miles an hour, you know, and I think we’re under enough stress as it is natural enough stress with the global situation, but also our westernized, fast paced and technologically advanced in lives which are rather growing faster. And the human is not going to catch up, catch up so we can build better systems now and better practices. We can deal with it much better.

Ollie: It’s the general pace is now I mean, the tortoise wins the race at the end. You need to really bear that in mind. Like long training for longevity is something that I’ve never come across. Anybody knew it would be like we’re just not told about that and we don’t even think about it, you know? And it. It’s something that you can do some serious detrimental damage in your young years playing a sport, not correct it in some of the rest of your life from that. And, you know, and it’s again, it’s the awareness, the education. But, yeah, the long game is a slow-paced game. And it’s the importance of, as we said at the beginning, the habits and just doing good things every single day is the consistency of it. It’s not just training. Forty-five minutes and then off you go. Like it’s a daily thing. It’s a way of life.

Elliot: And I think just to add on that, I think it comes from a passive mindset because I think if you always think in the front line in terms of I have to reach this goal two weeks in front that you automatically put yourself in, it’s too much pressure. The stress goes up and you are just you on this way the whole time and I move that pressure to have the goal is still there. But every single day you’re in that present moment and you’re just on that side of a nice pattern of moving and everything’s a little bit of everything. And then the goal will happen. But you wouldn’t have killed. Stop getting that.

Darren: Yeah, I and I think the breathwork in the meditation puts you in the now and again, back to what you guys said earlier. We are so fast-paced. We always like the next thing, the next goal, the next holiday, this, that, and the other more about them. But yeah, yeah. And I agree completely. I struggle with the year and I think last year I finally really started to understand it to the point where it’s incorporated into my daily life. It’s like you pause. We just paused for ten seconds. Left, right. I’m here, I’m doing this on my podcast with you guys, you know, it’s kind of just recognizing that I feel just so much power in that it’s like ignoring everything else that goes on. But we just we’re not there yet. I don’t think so. And obviously, you guys are kind of pushing us forward to kind of understand that. But, yeah, there is a huge amount of power in that massively.

Ollie: And for us with Darren Kirby, that’s why it has to be the nice mix between spirituality and science, has to be the mix between feeling and factual like. Yeah, because those two things together, that is the nice makeup of that human, you know, it really is that soulfulness and the backing of obvious evidence behind that. We’re trying to think that

Elliot: Just to jump back on the now thing about whether you, I just think that having a singular task mindset is something which we’ve lost as well. And I think that the only science and technology has created ways and places that we have opened actually inside our brains. So you’ll do a tap for like five seconds. You move on and you’ll think of something, something will happen. And this constant distraction or this feeling of opening where you just sort of sugarcoat the little tasks or they really ever achieve. What you want to do is really just distracting us the whole time. It’s causing more stress, more anxiety, more pressure. And I guess with the human program, we try to use these pillars as single tasks that you need to focus on when you’re in those tasks. And that’s the only thing to think about. You need to think about anything else that I think we can do more in the day all the time when we do a task properly. Right. I’m trying to do this task and that’s it. And, you know, it’s Full immersion into it again.

Darren: Yeah, it’s exactly that. Yeah. It’s just removing these distractions and just like you say like so I’m going to focus on this. I’m not going to be distracted. But like you said earlier on, A, you know, the algorithms are so advanced now, almost should be a law against them because you end up right here in the

Elliot: U.s. It’s so scary. Not a thing definitely for both of us. We’ve become more aware of this. And it’s I just think it’s simple things like taking off the notifications or not looking at your device at a certain time and getting control back of technology because at the moment it’s completely warped, that’s all. And we have no idea what’s happened. I mean, we just go down the street and you can see people blindly crossing the road. What they had done was scary. I have no awareness whatsoever. And it’s we have lost the art of communication in terms of the human side of things because we’re so and we’ve all been in group situations or seen in public situations where there’s no one’s looking up anymore. It’s all looking down. And I guess our job as coaches as well. What you saw happen is to help people look up and to see the world in the clouds, in the trees, and

Ollie: There are people around in confidence. You know, it’s like we love to overcomplicate things as humans where it needs simple things, all of the most extraordinary if they really are. But if you do the simple things well and this stands for everything in life, as it fulfills, you will give you everything that you need and everything you require. So, yeah, I mean, the technology is an interesting one, isn’t it? But it is trying to disconnect from that in a way that is accessible for all of us. Let’s say going back to the simple things, you know, like just getting out nature find down, just go for a walk like there’s power in that huge power. So it’s so calming. It’s so relaxing. It’s so you can draw so much energy from walking around barefoot on the grass or being out in the sunlight. These are energy givers. This is what we’re playing at the end of the day, we require the same thing that they do and we have technologies that put a real, real interesting twist on things. But it is having that balance, isn’t it? It’s the ability to know when all is said is the awareness of the right to use this for whatever reason but at the same time. OK, let’s push that away. Let’s disconnect. Let’s focus on coming back into yourself and again, education.

Darren: Yeah. And I think if the last year has taught us anything, it should have taught us the importance of being connected, appreciating what you have appreciated and where you are, the environment and everything else that comes with that. Right. And I would like to think that a lot of people have realized that. But it’s amazing how many people just look back. How scary. Yeah, just I know we were having this discussion yesterday. It’s like lockdown’s lifted. People flipped back straight and straight to driving like lunatics again. It’s just like it’s just kind of

Ollie: It’s interesting as well that so much of it, I think, is accountability as well. We have to be accountable. We’ve all got plans for who should be accountable for our own health like we should be, we should have the information that saturated day in, day out through social media or Google or whatever, like it’s for us to take back our own path, for us to be like, OK, I’m going to actually learn about the breath because I know it’s going to strengthen your immune system or when you look into intermittent fasting because I’ll function a lot more optimally when I provide so much more energy. So it’s these things and it’s so much information out there, but it’s the willingness. Right, to do that to be accountable. It’s OK. Rather than just going down to the doctors or to like, let’s learn about this sort of stuff. And we’re a self-healing mechanism at the end of the day that everything is required within ourselves. So it’s the willingness to learn.

Darren: Yeah. I mean, I smiled and spoke about that, about the whole doctor thing. I mean, I’m not going to get my soapbox, but no one else is responsible for our health other than us. We have evolved to put the power and the into the NHS. I think the NHS is amazing, amazing I’m not this in the NHS, but we have to be responsible with the NHS to fix them. We’re breaking right now. We have to be. Yeah. And like I said, I won’t get on my side box, but I say, guys, listen, I’m just conscious of time. So what five things could you recommend the listeners could do today to become more human?

Elliot: So all I’ll listen to. 

Ollie: A very powerful thing about journaling and reflection is gratitude and gratefulness and just appreciation for what you have. It’s so what is good for us to live our lives at such a fast pace. But you put yourself in someone else’s shoes and you really understand the world, you know, and that’s what needs to be more that needs to be more of that. So for me, journaling is a very powerful tool at the start of the day and at the end of the day, to reflect on your day or goals that you were trying to reach. And I have to say this as well, just because I’m a huge advocate for myself personally, it’s been a real, real journey of exploration and understanding myself so much deeper. So those are kind of my two main pillars of it personally, but also

Elliot: For me, and also I think for everyone is obviously the breath that I use in the nose to breathe a bit. Chilly is the thing. We take around twenty-two thousand breaths a day. I’m not sure how aware most of us are of that amount of breath. So it’s using the nose to breathe more, having a breath practice every day, whether that’s just five or ten minutes of slow breathing doesn’t have to be accommodated whatsoever. And I’m not, I guess that goes into meditation as well, which is the stillness of the merry go round of this computer-driven psychological warfare, really, which is just taking us all down day by day. So if we can get off the wheel a bit and have stillness and have space to really tune back in is extremely powerful. And I guess the last one would just move freely but with not huge amounts of intensity every day. So let’s give it here and there. And that doesn’t have to be an ordered routine for most of us. That has to extend our limbs to the opposite ends of the spectrum. Whether that’s imagining that you’re reaching that for your top shelf ten times or you’re going to reach below your ankles ten times and it’s getting back to that school crawl, roll with roll mentality like a child is son, again, something we’ve lost.

So I think it’s a combination of all of those which probably would take about five to ten minutes everyday maximum. That’s less than an hour. And that’s where it does over time. If you really stick to these habits, which I think is around 30 days or however long it takes being brain, that really starts to feel like yourself. You know, it starts to engage yourself more and see how you respond to situations differently. You don’t see the reactions of things. Now, for me, Ollie is much different. I think, you know, maybe just everyone’s kind of external world is always a reflection of their internal world. So it’s always been aware of that. And when you meditate more, you realize it’s even more as well and that you don’t have to be or react to anything. Actually, you can just stay at the top. And things like meditation and breathing are at the heart of that.

Darren: I think that gives you the ability to just pause and reflect that split second before you respond. Yeah. Then you don’t have to react. You can respond but not react. And I think you say become disconnected, not disconnected. Remember the way you used that, but this whatever it is. But yeah. Just don’t feel you need to kind of jump in and get an answer or get a response or whatever and just. Kamini and I think the other thing I picked from you guys earlier was that I actually do more stretching on my breath the wrong way round, so I do stretching and then work. So I’m going to switch it around the other way. So yes, yes. Super great to have you guys on and about. How can people connect with you? Human programming. Find out more about what you guys do.

Elliot: So we’ve got social media. Instagram is @thehumanprogramme and then Olly’s as well on his personal @olliefrostpt. We will talk a little about a Facebook group running The Human Programme and then obviously online. The website is www.thehumanprogramme.com. We are running our next course on the 19th of June, 2nd of May,

And that’s an open day. So we’re sort of driving as much traffic towards the minute, towards the next course, which is really exciting. We’ve got some fantastic practitioners on board as well, guys who sort of really have areas of expertise in their topic and field yet. And then we’re looking to open an outdoor school of life on the open days on the 19th June Chessington, such just yourself in South London. So that’s where we’re going to really explore the physical part of the human program. You know, so this is where we’ll have it all outdoors. You’re in the elements. It’s under a nice hanger on a farm. And you have stuff like the ice work. They’re going to have a sauna. We’re going to have a climbing wall as well. So, again, a very fluid movement. We’ll have the dojo there for the martial arts, Frylock. Locomotive movement, some balance stuff as well as the lines. I just have it. It’s not all playground, you know, it’s about lost and lost in the art of play. And it’s I think with that natural setting as well, with the real power in that it’s just a complete disconnect and just a playful experience. And that’s where we really sort of want to enforce that and enforce it. But put out as

Darren: Is that also on the website, the 19th of June? 

Ollie: Not yet, but it will be in the coming weeks.

Darren: I’ll put all of that in the show notes anyway so that people can head over and check it out. Thank you so much.

Elliot: Now I’ve got the rest of the day these guys take care

Darren: Thanks for listening to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please hit subscribe and I would really appreciate it if you could leave a review on iTunes. All the things mentioned in the episode will be in the show notes. And a full transcription is over at fitterhealthierdad.com