Simon Whyatt

Episode 90 – Why should Dads Eat Higher Welfare Meat with Simon Whyatt from Green Pasture Farms

Episode Highlights

00:01:19 Background of the guest
00:11:19 How  foods gets in our plate
00:20:46 Why cutting big food groups out is not advisable
00:28:46 Organic food is better than non-organic food
00:33:16 Grass Fed vs Grass Finished meat
00:36:41 How Green Pastures select farmers to work with
00:39:32 5 Key Takeaways to switch better quality meat


Links

Transcript

Welcome to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast, where you can learn how to improve your diet, lose fat and get fitter in a sustainable and fun way without spending hours in the gym. Here Is your host Darren Kirby.

Darren: Welcome back to the podcast, guys. This is the number one podcast for dads in their 40s who want to improve their health and fitness. This is episode 90 and on today’s show, we’re going to be talking about the importance of higher welfare meat, the impact it has on our health and our environment. And joining us is Simon from green pasture farms. Green pasture farms practice regenerative agriculture, producing organic grass fed British meat in an ethical, sustainable manner. Simon, thanks very much for joining me on the podcast today. How are you?

Simon: Hi Darren! Thanks for having me.

Darren: No, thanks very much for giving me your time. So obviously today we’re going to be talking about the sources of meat and all things meat. But we were talking just before we started recording. Obviously, you’ve got a very interesting background. So for the people that haven’t come across you and green pastures before, can you give us a little bit of background and insight as to how you’ve ended up where you’re at today?

Simon: Yeah, I’ll try and do the brief, but it’s quite a long story. Well, maybe not so. I actually used to be a vegetarian. I was a vegetarian for 13 years. Yeah. And health and kind of ethical reasons. Yeah. I was a very unhealthy vegetarian after university. At least it was like, well, sort of vegetarian beer, lots of pies and very, very bad shape to the point where we were friends and it got me a pregnant pencil belly. Yeah, this isn’t too good. So then I started getting in shape and I’m a very kind of analytical person, so. Rather than just going to the gym and just doing whatever I’ve read about, yeah, researching books, study those kind of thing, and when I first came across a kind of paleo training, came across an article that came in to sit out right now, I was interested in the whole kind of evolutionary Yeah. Theory, and then from that discovered the paleo diet and started reading about the paleo diet and basically transformed my health and physique through training and doing like primal kind of training. I knew that this was back in like two thousand. And yet I think. And I got really into it all the time, I was working for a bank and I really enjoy a little training and stop giving people advice and training, nutrition results, I’m sure within two years I opened a gym and had a gym called Primal Fitness. Right. And also had a blog online on the website Fitness had a blog with followers used to write about primal training, paleo diet, and that was eating good quality meat.

I started eating meat again with a paleo diet, but I wanted to make sure to me, higher welfare is super important and the environment as well. So I want to make sure that no one is going to eat meat, that it was high animal welfare, that it was found in a way that was helpful for the planet not destroying the planet. So I went and searched for farms. I wanted to see them for myself to make sure the animals were being treated right as they were supposed to be. I found some really nice traditional funds not far from this is what I was living in Manchester, which was in Manchester. Right. So if I’m going to start buying the meat from myself and then we’ll have clients in the gym, I was recommending this kind of meat and we started off and went to the farm, which is about 45 minutes from Manchester. Look, I’ve got people who are interested in buying meat. Maybe you can put in an order, you could deliver it to the gym. Yeah. So the business started with the butcher coming, but right now delivering a bundle of meat to the gym every day and every day. Every week. Yeah, I had this phone alliance. I said, you know, there were a lot of people interested in buying this kind of meat, but it’s not very easy to find. This is like back in 2003, 2004.

Darren: Yeah.

Simon: If you could maybe butcher shop and pack it and send it down to the customer, I can run the website sales because I have this community of people online that Richard Di Natale started basically. Right. So I just thought of doing a couple of boxes a week online and just gradually grew from there. And it used to be just like entitlements, the private fitness website. Right. Well, things started to grow and realized it was a bigger market and probably wasn’t the right branding. So that’s when I start green pasture farms, right. That opens up a little bit more than just people doing it, just people and training anybody who’s interested in health and animal welfare. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, eventually I read a book called The Four Hour Work Week, if you’re familiar with it.

Darren: Yeah, yeah. From Tim Ferriss. Yep.

Simon: And I love the job. It was brilliant. But also, I love to travel. I’m willing to do a lot of hours and so on. Yeah, I was getting a steady income to this point from the meat at home. So I am actually doing business on some friends right now. So I still run the website and do customer service and do the technical side. Yeah. And then the founder of calling hard work. Right.

Darren: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That’s super interesting. And it’s fascinating for a number of points really. I think, you know, back in 2003, 2004, I mean, I even think that what you were doing now is quite new and innovative but you were doing it back in 2003, 2004. And, you know, when you were at your pregnant pensa stage, you said you are unhealthy. But was it just an esthetic side of things that you felt unhealthy or did you not feel good in yourself?

Simon: No, I didn’t feel really good to myself when I was younger, like a teenager or super active. And my mom cooks amazing. She always cooked for me like home cooked food every day. Yeah, I was young. I was drinking massive amounts. Yeah. And then it kind of went to university and I did not cook fortunately. But so I was in a vegetarian diet book. Yeah. Know. Tins of macaroni cheese and, wow, copious amounts of alcohol. Yeah, yeah, and that catches up with you after a while. I used to work in an office afterwards. You have to stop in any exercise except Darren Kirby. Yeah. Yeah. And I was working in an office like bags of donuts from a supermarket yet several donuts every day. Straight out to the pub after work every day. But yeah, not in an exercise whatsoever. It’s like pretty crap.

Darren: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. I mean it’s, it’s interesting because what you’re describing there is not too dissimilar to the guys that I coach now. And you know, it’s, it’s largely the issue that I see is that they have way too many carbohydrates basically, and they don’t have enough. You don’t have enough proteins that have enough fats, you know, and so there’s an imbalance there. But I think it’s interesting because, you know, I don’t really want to go down the rabbit hole on the whole vegan movement. But, you know, everybody seems to have moved towards a vegan diet or the vegan diet is very popular. And the large majority of the people that I see that are doing it are doing it for because they’ve heard somebody else do it and they feel amazing. And then the second thing is that they’re doing it for the environmental reasons and like maybe animal welfare and all the rest of it. So I get the environmental animal side of things. But the thing for me is that when people move to a vegan diet or in actual fact, when you move to any kind of, you know, diet modality, if you like, moving away from a Western diet, you are going to feel better for the simple reason that you’re going to be cutting a lot of processed rubbish out. And that’s not to say vegan can’t be processed because it can be.

But I believe and this is kind of why you and I are talking today, that we need to take it up a level. And going up a level means where the food is sourced from. And obviously, you know, you clearly identified very early on that, you know, the source of your food is very, very important. And I think that that’s where we need to be looking at how our food supply, if you like, not diet level, because, you know, if you and we’ll go into this in a minute and I’ll get you to explain a little more detail. But, you know, if you if the source of your food is coming from a less than ideal place and it’s gone through a real massive process in order to get it to your plate, know a very fundamental level when you put that in your gut and it interacts with your gut microbiome, it’s going to you know, it’s not going to be good for you and your gut is not going to like it. And therefore, it has a whole host of other functions that go on in the gut, in the brain, everything else which makes you feel rubbish. So, yeah, it’s very interesting how you came to that quite early. But so I would imagine then in 2003, 2004, paleo and all that kind of stuff, it wasn’t really a thing in the diet and fitness world.

Simon: No, no, not not to the extent that it is now. I mean, it’s probably past its peak now. It’s the middle of a long day. I’m terrible with dates, but I mean, it really exploded. Oh. Maybe like 2008, 2009. Yeah, could be completely emotional for a long time. It was quite the website to long hold a few boxes and then eventually it really got a big boost. Yeah. And then, yeah, it’s been relatively popular since now, before winning, trying to explain to people. Nobody had a clue what was talking about. Now most people have at least heard of it.

Darren: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think he’s like you say isn’t it. It’s moved on from that. And it seems to me now that everyone’s gone off to keto high fat and all the rest of it. But, you know, so coming back to like animal welfare, because I think this is really important. And I think he’s I think really as a society, we have lost the understanding of how food gets on our plate. And I think it’s really important, particularly at child level, that they understand how food gets to the plate. Because once you understand that process, I think you can make way more better informed decisions about what you choose to eat. So you said that you went round to farms to have a look at the animals and look at how they’re being treated. But how did you really determine at that stage what was good, what was bad, you know, the feed the animals were having and the environment in which they were in?

Simon: Well, I mean, these are two different. Let all those folks I mean, from the animal welfare side, yeah, that’s pretty straightforward. You know, the animals have access to space outside and that room is better. Well, fact crammed into tiny cages are tiny hooks. And this is definitely not. Yeah, well, particularly, I would say most cows and sheep in the UK have a relatively good life. Yeah, it’s very rare. Intensively farmed cows and sheep in the UK.

Darren: Ok, that’s interesting.

Simon: No suspects diets. Yeah. But, you know, welfare probably isn’t going to be that bad. Well, and you never know. I have seen I wasn’t in the UK, but I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty rare. Whereas pigs and chickens just get horrible, horrible times out of it. Yeah. For me, especially like pigs pig the superintelligent is quite easily as intelligent as a dog if not more. Wow. I didn’t know that. And most of them I just in these tiny and their entire lives never see the light of day. Wow. And it’s just completely inhumane. Yes. Yeah. It was. I said I never had a problem with that of killing an animal to eat it. Not any that for me it’s like what happened before that point was important. So, yeah, I think it’s always very important that the animals, you know, have a good life. Yeah. Until then that is a more complicated one and. I mean, there are various debates. The exact same thing is with humans. Yeah, our beef and lamb is 100 percent grassby 100 percent finished, right? There could be debate that maybe justice, sustainability could put some of the things in that waste food, waste cereals that object for human consumption, this kind of thing. Some farms that use the. Leftover cereals after making beer, and those are the cows and stuff. So from a sustainability point of view, you know, that has benefits because of using waste. Yeah. And then there’s a great sense of humor. I mean, I should say it myself. I don’t really like a strict paleo diet like I think he is and sort of not. And, you know, I think as a human being, if all you eat is bread and pizza and you never see a vegetable or fresh meat, really not for you. Whereas if you eat 80 percent fruits, vegetables, I wouldn’t expect this kind of thing and then had some salad on the side providing you don’t have specific issues. Yeah, but some people that’s perfectly fine. So we probably know you could say the same for. For cows and sheep? Well, I don’t know. Yeah, that still means more research, really, I guess.

Darren: Yeah. And so but what you said there was quite interesting, insomuch as you don’t see that there’s many of these mass farming going on with cows and sheep in the UK,I would have imagined just looking at the volume of meat and, you know, I guess consumer requirements for that meat, I would have thought that that, you know, I don’t think it would be in the majority to be in the minority, but I would have thought we’d have seen quite a large proportion of where the meat comes from in a mass farmed environment.

Simon: Yeah, I mean, a lot of it’s imported, right. And then say. There aren’t many ideal conditions. Yeah, they have less space, a lot less space than, say, our counter because we don’t need as much space between the lines of grain. Yeah, well, at least that inside of the cage. Yeah. Yeah.

Darren: Because I think I think the other thing is, you know, and you chime in here, if you think I’m not describing it correctly, that if we look at a basic level, it is the fact that if you have to see where the meat comes from in a hostile environment, shall we say, you know, is a human, if you’re in a hostile environment, you become stressed and everything else, you know, all the various different functions and elements of the body kick in. And, you know, some of the animals, like you said, pigs are kind of like almost akin to a dog. And so therefore the meat will get stressed and the quality of the meat will be less. And therefore, when we ingest it, the meat days, you know, we’re going to be taking on all the stresses and strains and it’s not good for our own bodies. So I think it’s important that we kind of explain why we are talking about this, because I believe that this is the part that we’re missing right now.

Simon: And the other aspect as well, health wise, human health wise, is these mass farms of pigs and chickens are like a breeding ground for the next pandemic, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It’s just a massive tragedy waiting to happen. You know, there’s another birth or swine flu coming out of the horrific Auschwitz like conditions. And yet. You know, I would hope that maybe the situation going through might be the kind of impetus needed to try and put a stop to. To the farmer in all of these conditions Rushworth, but they’re also given antibiotics all the time, which is, you know, if you want to breed antibiotic resistant superbugs, this is the exact recipe you have to do it.

Darren: But but I think, though, I think on that, I don’t think as much as you and I would like to think that as a result of what’s going on now with this pandemic, that people are going to stop and question. I think they will. But I think there is very much in the minority and again, I’m very conscious of not going off a political standpoint, but I think there’s a huge disconnect between what the government thinks and what some of the minority think is healthy. And I did a bit of a rant on this last Sunday, because if we look at what’s happening in the U.K. right now is. For example, Jim’s sharp. But takeaways are thriving, and so we want to fight disease and we want to have a strong immune system, but basically all we’re doing is we are doing it. You know, we’re kind of fueling the fire. So, you know, Bii is lots of highly processed food that’s cooked in to take away that inflammatory oils, which goes into the gut, which affects the gut microbiome. You know, this is where I think that there’s a disconnect. And this is where, you know, like I would like to think that as a result of this, things would change. But I think there needs to be more people talking about it. I think there needs to be a bigger platform and a bigger voice. And now I’m not going to go off and start some march. But yeah, I agree with you, Sam, but I’m not so sure it’s going to be as kind of, you know, widely talked about, really.

Simon: No, unfortunately, I mean, this is the same all those in the food industry are very kind of. I was looking for free in my English. It’s very impenetrable, you know, people don’t know whether through control, I would say, I mean, the vast majority of people, I think if they actually went and saw an industrial pig farm, industrial chicken farm, chicken farm about Iraq, they were horrified and would probably never eat again. But, you know, you have all these nice wrapped chickens in the supermarket with a picture of a happy farm that you think about. I don’t question birth control.

Darren: No, exactly. And this is obviously why we’re talking today, is that I want to get across to the listeners that it’s important that you do at least acknowledge where it comes from so that you can make those choices. Because, you know, this is obviously, like I said, there’s a big rise in vegan vegetarian diets and a move away from a carnivore diet. But, you know, I believe that the only reason for that is environmental reasons. And like I said earlier, you know, some people feel better as a result. But I’m not a massive advocate of cutting big food groups out of our diet because we have evolved having, you know, I guess a nutritionally balanced diet. And, you know, studies have shown that the human brain developed more when we started to be carnivorous. When we started to eat meat, the human brain developed more and grew more. And we evolved more as a human race. So I’m not a massive advocate of cutting big food groups out. But there obviously this is a movement away from meat. So where do you stand on this? You’ve been an unhealthy vegan. You now eat meat. What’s your view on it?

Simon: I don’t think the science is clear that we are obligate omnivores. Hmm. So I am not. I don’t think a vegan a hundred percent pure vegan diet long term is not going to work for. Believe the vast majority of people. Yeah, um, I think there’s probably some genetic kind of some people do better than others and have a good outcome, but in short, trying to make peace a long chain and. Yeah. Probably a beta carotene and those kinds of things, but regardless, you’re going to need some form of vitamin B 12 from somewhere. Yeah, and I’m not. I’m not concerned about either.

Darren: Right.

Simon: Either for health and definitely not for sustainability reasons. Yeah. I mean, I actually eat very little meat, maybe only meat, maybe once a week. But I live in Spain. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to our meat anymore, but I believe in it locally. And there’s not a great deal of grass around here. I mean, plenty of fish, seafood, these kinds of things, some beef that would quite cross the Pyrenees. I do get some like. It’s not saying quality yet, yeah, the same gradually, so you can get some okay. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, actually, you know, I don’t eat a paleo diet anymore than a vegan diet anymore, but I eat a lot of meals like a vegan, like I knew a paleo. I think careful protein labels diet can become like a religion. Yeah, well, when people say things out, either Aperio diet, I am a vegan and confirmation bias comes in. Yeah. The obvious is to accept the evidence that conflicted places already. So yeah, I try to be quite agnostic. Keep an open mind. I personally know how I feel about and I’ve ever done in my entire life and. You know, just trade a balanced diet. Yeah, from one extreme to the other, just in terms of psychological well-being, I try not to be too restrictive. I think you restrict and worry too much about whether it’s a strange balance. You know, I think it is very, very important what you eat. But I also think you’ve got a good amount of leeway here. I mean, the fridge, all parts of the planet from, you know, diets that are predominantly animal protein based diet of the vegetable based.

And I think as long as you, me and you, I kind of feel like you’ve got different accounts, you know. So as long as you get enough micronutrients and essential amino acids with enough of the essential vitamins and minerals, this kind of thing won’t be covering those bases, which actually need relatively little and. Then fine, and then your body, it’s not not that fragile, you know, nice people, you can take a bit of toxins in that neurotoxins and shoot glutens. And that’s one of the most demonized ones I’ve talked to in all of that. Fruits and vegetables and all those kinds of foods are, you know, cooking makes a big difference. Yes. I read the book Catching Fire How Cooking Made US Human. No, I haven’t read a brilliant book yet, but it is. So evolutionary biologist Robin and nutritionists angle the thinking doesn’t come with preconceived ideas, which is good. It’s often about it like. I mean, this is a big debate, was it just me entering the day or was it the cooking processes that made all the fruit and vegetables all digestible, that allowed the store to shrink and the brain to grow? Yeah, pretty interesting. And there’s a lot of Galavis on. Lecterns, a different kind of compound in foods, are dangerous. The look, the foods, it makes them more digestible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don’t want to be in raw origins and raw potatoes yet to amend things. Yeah, no. You can write down what was adjustable.

Darren: Yeah I know. And I think that part of it, you know, understanding that and understanding the process and why we need to cook certain things, you know, like you say, because there is a there’s lots of different sort of and arguments in terms of the non vegan people who say that vegan diet is full of plants, it’s got full elections are bad for you. And then, you know, the vegan people, we say that the meat is bad for you because of the white sauce and you know that we shouldn’t eat animals and everything else. So there’s lots of sides to the argument. So, yeah, I agree. I think, you know, having a balanced diet and I think you made a good point there around, you know, the body is an amazing thing and it can deal with toxins and things like that, you know, if you are continually giving it toxins. And that’s a different story. But if you have balance, the body can break down, it can digest and it can, you know, discard or take in whatever it needs to take in. So I think, you know, that is having a balanced view, I think.

Simon: But it reminds me, I remember this on the television program with this boy who was like a teenager, maybe 17 years old. Yeah. Like six foot tall and all in every inch like the past ten years of jam sandwiches. And what I mean, how is that possible?

Darren: Yeah, exactly.

Simon: Yeah, I was announced to become ill. It was like ten years.

Darren: Well yeah exactly. I mean, that’s the thing isn’t it. You know, it doesn’t always kind of show itself immediately. If you are following a balanced diet, it will be over a period of time. But the other thing that’s always quite interesting is to find Simon, is that there’s this big, particularly in supermarkets, right? There’s this big thing around how good organic is, OK? And within that, if it’s organic, then it must be good for us. But, you know, to come back to things like chicken, for example. You know, if you got an organic chicken, it’s three, four times the price of a normal chicken, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s still good because obviously it depends on what feed is being given. Right.

Simon: Yeah, I mean. Again, this is where things get complicated, I would say, you know. Chicken is probably not Result chicken, but from my perspective, I’m not the most sustainable of meat products, right? Organic chickens are much more expensive because it requires much more land. Yeah, because the animal is much more spaced out around animal for its well-being, but also producing the crops organically into the chickens. Yeah. Takes much more land, more water. I mean, the whole. Everything so complicated, that label. Yeah. Going to say organic food is better than non-organic food. I mean, it’s far more complicated than that in reality. Yeah. The problem is, I mean, when we first started for many, many years, we didn’t have an organic certification. I was kind of quiet against it. Yeah, it’s expensive. And at the end of the day, we found exactly the same way. You have to pay for this education not just increases the price of the product yet, but in the end we decided to go with it because there’s lots of people out there like saying it’s 100 percent grass, that it’s free range and it isn’t. Yeah, and some volatility comes in a situation where you need some kind of certificate to prove something. Yeah, well, I might say no. I mean, to me, if it’s me always going organic because it does guarantee at least the animal welfare.

Right. Because there’s minimal requirements for how old they need to be before they are killed, along with their mothers, how much space they have with plant foods, it’s more complicated. You can do a kind of greenwashing with organic and still have like, you know. Well, with many different things we can do to still a big well, I mean, I again, that when it comes to plants, there is a big debate which is better industrially produced in all this, because potentially by producing crops on an industrial scale is more efficient, use less land. This is the main issue before we get to the point of using all the land that’s possible to farm crops. And you don’t want to go around chopping down more rainforests to grow. So maybe more intensive production in some cases. And this is why I really don’t believe you should just blanket say organic is. But really you have to look at each individual case. Yeah. Yeah. Well, many questions of well, how do you decide how you know what’s good and are you walking to a supermarket like. Which. Packet of. Well, Richard, Beetroots, do you choose, you know, you’re going to come up with anything, we get rid of these labels because it’s more complicated this and saying, well, I use a blender. Yeah, I think so.

Darren: Yeah. And I think that’s a good point in the labeling side of things. It’s well, the intention is there to give us the information. I think the reality is probably 90 percent of people don’t pay any attention to it. And those that do probably don’t understand it fully because it’s I think it’s there to serve a regulatory requirement as opposed to actually give us useful, valuable information. So, yeah, but I think also, you know, you make a good point about farming, particularly around vegetarianism. There’s a big push around vertical farms and all this kind of stuff now which has its place. And I think it’s all I think it’s all important to to kind of test it and devise what works best for what kind of product, really. But in terms of the coming back to meat and beef and stuff like that, there’s obviously this big thing around now about being grass fed because obviously grass fed means that the cattle has been in it’s relatively natural habitat. It’s grazed out as it should graze. Therefore, the meat’s better. But then there’s also this other side, which is not spoken about too much. And that is it might be grass fed, but it’s not grass finished. So maybe you could explain a little bit more around that.

Simon: Yeah, I mean, grass fed. I mean, that’s when there’s life out grazing. Lots of different things are grass. People like to be alone. Yeah. How was the industry and then. Yeah. Are available on account of the wild bushes that we leave the trees that we can reach the weed. Yeah. The grass out there is actually a mix of like loads and loads of different plants. Yeah. Lots of insects. Right. Well right. You know, grass finished is there is also a tendency of cows without that one. And then the last few months give them like zero. Just the bottom of it. Yeah. How is most breeds and then the one that they’re all hard to get rid of, of calories from the grass, you know. A lot, a lot. A lot of grass. So fortunately the farm’s ours. And Penland like North Lancashire. Yeah. Rains all the time. So you always have hilly grasslands. Yeah. Which can be used to cultivate crops. So it makes sense just to let the cows wander around in the and energy from the sort of green grass and there is enough to get in fact. Well but on this one issue is working long term Carnivàle and I had this kind of thing, there’s not that much or you can’t produce that much organic meat. I mean, if you have the entire UK population compared to a right, all want to do it with organic meat. It’s just impossible. Yeah, it just doesn’t work because you can’t just physically can’t produce that much meat.

Darren: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, I mean, that’s that’s interesting because it’s again and I think this is why the supermarkets have evolved in the way that they have, is because we as a consumer demanded, you know, we want this product. And so they’ve had to find a way to form a certain way that they can produce, you know, in the quantities that we’re demanding in. So I think that’s that’s why I say, you know, the education piece is quite important, really, because like you’ve just said, you know, it’s physically impossible. There’s not enough land to be able to farm in that way.

Simon: Not for everybody to eat like beef every day. Yeah, I’m personally at a more realistic vision to move people eating like a paleo diet but heavy on the vegetables. Yeah, it kind of made me through most of human history and all the fun. It was relatively seldomly, you know, it’s only very, very recently, you know, the last. Well, half a century, that means on a daily basis, but a lot of people have become a normal thing, it’s never been in the history of, well, maybe in some small tribes, possibly. You know, for me, it’s better to be the highest quality meat less frequently than crappy. I mean, every day.

Darren: Yeah. And I recently read a report, funnily enough, on butchery and what butchers are thinking. And they believe that the kind of future is lower volumes of meat, but higher quality. Yeah. And I believe that that’s where it’s going. And obviously, you know what you just said that supports that. And I think that’s the right way to do it. You know, like continually eating, you know, animal based products because there is another side to this is obviously it can create inflammation in the body as well if you’re continually consuming meat, which is obviously not good for our long term health. So, yeah, I think I think I think that’s quite important. But in terms of, you know, there’s another side to this which people might not have come across, and that is regenerative farming now. So that’s kind of taking farming back to its kind of roots, if you pardon the pun, where they’re farming in a more natural way. And I guess that also means the volume in which they farm at will be reduced so much. Is that something that green pastures looks at when you’re selecting the farmers to work with?

Simon: Yeah, definitely. I mean, for me, it’s really important that the animals are. Raise a sustainable manner. Good for them. Yes, those in line with their natural instincts and then go to the local area as well. So, you know, we call this a cycle. The cows are eating the grass. But how parts are going back into the grass and it’s just let them go. Animals, you know, the chickens, removable sheds. So they’re always on fresh pasture when they have it in the movies. That’s another part of the game. Foraging, fertilize, foraging, fertilizer. It’s not like in a lot of industries now. Materials coming from another country and it’s going to be in that metal slurry is just not very natural soil and then, you know, it’s going into the waterways and the current problems with. Choking up nuggets almost fossilize in the algae called hypoxia, they should die and give them oxygen.

Darren: Not exactly. Yeah, I agree. It’s like the whole food chain gets affected, doesn’t it? So, um, before we kind of wrap it up, Simon, what do you do? What would you say the five key things that, you know, us as consumers could do in order to switch to better quality meat? And obviously, we can potentially just go down the organic route. But what are the five things that you would suggest that we can look out for?

Simon: I would say, I mean by British have laws passing through at the minute trying to make it easier to import meat from abroad, which is going to be super cheap, much, much lower standards in all respects, animal welfare, what the fate of drugs is, those kinds of things. Yeah, I would say really, really avoid industrially farmed pork. And chicken is, you know, just horrendous in terms of animal welfare. It’s a massive risk for the next pandemic. Yeah, and you never told me. It’s just terrible. There’s not doing any favors. And yet beef and lamb recommend grass fed. It’s much more sustainable energy loss, much better use of land. Yeah. And the results of much more much, much more nutrient dense meat. So it’s kind of a win win situation. Well, it tastes better and it’s a better unexpecting environment. Yeah, well, I should hopefully be a little bit more known. The beef and lamb are much more expensive really than the stuff of beef because it takes longer to farm. Take about two years. Yeah. However, it’s just a lot rather than a year. But you’ve got fewer inputs and outputs of bio’s grain in the grass. Yeah. Kind of balances out. Yeah, yeah, you like chicken pot, just got a pig in the chicken back from your vegetable scraps, but a more sustainable way.

Darren: Some of the size of the gardens with the houses being built nowadays. I don’t think we even a pig or a chicken and they would

Simon: Break down and strengthen each year.

Darren: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s that, that’s really simple basic advice. And the other thing, you know, when you say about having higher quality, me, I think people’s initial reactions to that will be around the budget side of it all. You know, it’s going to cost us way more is but coming and coming back to what we were saying earlier, you don’t need to necessarily eat so much of it so you can have a higher quality product and you just not eat as much of it because, you know, that means that we are not having a diet which is majority meat based. We are then having a balanced diet. And so I think that’s that’s an important point to point out as well.

Simon: Really do. If you have a freezer, buy in bulk. Yeah, I mean, re-offer things like by half a pig by a whole lot. Yeah, by big about a tenth of a cow works out cheaper that way. Maybe shared between friends.

Darren: Yeah. And he’s all that butchered up when people. Yeah, yeah.

Simon: Yeah. Caltrop ripping through the lightbox. Not for that.

Darren: That was, that was my initial reaction when you said half of because I’m thinking you can just imagine the DPD driver coming to your front door with a…

Simon: Gps and send the whole thing. Yeah.

Darren: So yeah that’s cool. That’s that’s really, really interesting. So I mean, I really appreciate you coming on and explaining, you know, the kind of, I guess, the unspoken about parts of where meat comes from, how it’s farmed and why we should be so aware of it, really. But before we wrap it up, is there anything that I didn’t ask you feel that I should have asked you which would benefit the listeners?

Simon: Not necessarily. I mean, well, there is no doubt about making decisions. The really good thing is to just go visit the farms. If you are buying me, if it especially has been produced locally, I’ll try and get local produce. Meanwhile, any producer let them go and visit the farm. Yeah, and just see what’s going on there and get back in touch with that control, because, you know, there’s this kind of. Country Pascoe’s. Yeah, exactly, so especially if you’ve got kids, you make it out, you know. Yeah. And go see the animals and you know.

Darren: Yeah, yeah.

Simon: But you kids pet the pigs and the sheep estopinal, you know.

Darren: Yeah. I think the important thing is, you know, obviously children, tourists go with food. But I think there’s nothing like, you know, cementing it in their mind in terms of, you know, as you’re going to see them in their natural habitat and things like that. So, yeah. And I think that’s fine. That’s great advice. I mean, so if anyone wants to connect with you, what’s your website, Sociales or that kind of good stuff?

Simon: Well, we’ve got a website which is www.greenpasturefarms.co.uk through there through social media. I’m not really a very social media type person. I’m right. And then also the website www.livenowthrivelater.co.uk which was kind of local, my pretty well being to a lot of people. Yeah. So yeah, I’m on Twitter @simon_whyatt I’ll just go away and leave it as well guys.

Darren: Well anyway listen just go and check out, definitely go and check out green pastures. They’ve got some really great products on that. I’m what I would say is once you’ve tried it and you realize how tasty the food is, I’ll be surprised. You’ll be hard pressed to go back to any kind of supermarket.

Simon: Mean what I can do for you. Actually, I’ll get a discount voucher. Okay. I didn’t think of this before. So now you can put in the details of the faith.

Darren: Yeah. Thanks very much. I’ll put that. Yeah, we’ll put our all on the show notes and people can go in. Yeah. Get a discount off their first order.

Simon: Well, thank you very much for having me. It was a pleasure.

Darren: No worries. Yeah, now it is very good. Thank you. Thanks very much for coming on. And I will speak to you again soon.

Simon: Bye. 

Darren: Thanks for listening to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast If you enjoyed today’s episode, please hit subscribe and I would really appreciate it if you could leave a review on iTunes. All the things mentioned in the episode will be in the show notes. And a full transcription is over at fitterhealthierdad.com

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