0:02:06 – An introduction: Tony’s eventful journey to becoming a natural lifestylist
0:06:18 – Rewilding and taking care of our physical, social and spiritual needs
0:12:25 – Ancestral health is modern day wealth
0:15:48 – Our formative years determine how we play out the rest of our lives
0:24:19 – Children can learn fundamental lessons from play
0:30:13 – About Tony’s run from Land’s End to John O’Groats
0:37:49 – Broken and dejected, he took time out in the pain cave
0:48:39 – A day in the life of Tony: his daily routine
0:54:55 – Health effects of low melatonin: there’s a new “nine-to-five”
0:58:19 – Incorporating movement practices into daily activities
1:04:01 – Consistency is key
1:08:11 – Five key actions to help you implement a natural lifestyle in your daily routine
1:13:52 – Trust the process, respect the process, and be patient
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Welcome to the Fitter Healthier Dad podcast where you can learn how to improve your diet, lose fat and get fitter in a sustainable and fun way, without spending hours in the gym. Here is your host Darren Kirby.
Darren: This is Episode 28 of the Fitter Healthier Dad podcast and today we are going to be talking to the natural lifestylist known as Tony Riddle. Tony is a natural lifestyle coach and barefoot running enthusiast who has devoted his life to studying what makes us human and how to live naturally in the modern world. Through the adoption of simple practices, many of which defined humanity for millennia, he aids people in living healthier and more connected lives by changing our relationships to ourselves, to others, and to our personal environments. Hi, Tony, thanks for joining me on the podcast today. How are you?
Tony: I’m very well, Darren, thank you. Thanks for asking. It’s been a great day so far. Beautiful out there, actually.
Darren: It is a beautiful time of the year despite the rain, despite the cold, it is a great time of the year.
Tony: There’s no such thing as bad weather; just inappropriate clothing, I guess. Which is almost like inappropriate mindset that goes with it as well.
Darren: That’s the funny thing, isn’t it? We have these social norms, if you like, don’t we? Of how we’re supposed to dress and all the rest of it, in our daily lives. And it’s not all about that necessarily, as we’re going to talk about today. So for the listeners who haven’t come across you before or heard of you, can you give us just a brief intro into you, the natural lifestylist, and how you became to where you are today?
Tony: It’s a long podcast, there! I’m known as the natural life stylist. “What does that mean?” I guess is a good place to start. I was a personal trainer, I went through personal training, I found Pilates, found through Pilates that people were looking to improve posture. And if you then went into the roots of his original work, Joseph Pilates’s amazing specimen. It wasn’t like what we see today of the mat work or the reform or all the equipment-based Pilates. He was out in nature, he was in cold immersion, he was a gymnast, circus performer, middleweight professional boxer. I mean, just and incredible athlete, really, but he then specialised in what Pilates was: in its roots was this amazing kind of discipline. If you look at that, at it’s cool, it makes a lot of sense; this guy makes sense. But there’s almost like that generational amnesia; the repertoires or the coaching he was using then, the world wasn’t such a sedentary culture and wasn’t really approaching the indoor generation. People were very different then. We just have a generational amnesia that occurs.
I then found that people would come and see me and they’d have the same issues: lower back, knee pain and psychological stuff going on. So the movement therapy became movement and therapy. It was like you’re coaching them on a different level; it wasn’t really about posture anymore. But the main characteristics were they’d come in with compromising footwear, let’s say, that was narrow in the toe box and wider in the heel– complete opposite to the foot mechanics. They had also probably taken a car ride or a tube or something to the space where I was coaching and then they’d come to unravel all of that stuff that they’ve been putting in their everyday lifestyle and expect huge transformations to occur within an hour. And they’d come twice a week and then return back to the very lifestyle that they’re actually in movement and therapy trying to remove. Or unravel basically the symptoms of that lifestyle.
Then we closed that space; I closed the Pilates space. Some great mentors along the way, one of them in particular was this Nicholas Romanov who was a track and field coach in the Soviet era. And he discovered that there’s a specific posture that everyone went to when they run and the closer you can get to that, then the less injuries and the more efficient you become. And when you actually took that posture and the technique he was discussing, you then see that that exists in nature or people that haven’t been compromised so much by the sedentary culture.
And then a cousin of mine, Lee Saxby, and a friend of mine, Matt Walker, and myself, we set up a gym facility that within its core was about moving naturally, but there was also a bigger picture of the holistic approach of what it was to be human, I guess. We were also involved with a company called Wild Fitness and Wild Fitness’s core philosophy was to transform zoo humans into wild humans, and they would do in a retreat space in Watamu in Kenya. And we were heavily involved with that and then eventually, I help set up their pilot on the Isle of Wight.
One flaw with it is that back then–it’s very different now–they originally were teaching what they were classing as zoo humans, they were still teaching zoo exercises. Exercise is not natural movement in a natural setting, so it was going into nature but it wasn’t really understanding what it meant to rewild that behaviour from a zoo human to a wild human.
As I started to move along, other people were coming on the scene like Erwan Le Corre with MovNat, and then we started to bring more and more of a natural movement discipline into the facility. Two of my partners there, Lee and Matt, they jumped ship, I stayed on board and started to weave together more and more of a core philosophy that I then travelled with and we called it The Fundamentals of Human Movement.
Attached to that was also this understand that when you get physical, social and spiritual needs met, then the closer you are to syncing with your biological normal behaviours and the better the health and wellbeing. In other words, the further you get away from your physical, social and spiritual needs being met, the more human suffering.
So we started to see that, okay, there’s retreats here. Eventually, after years and years of plugging away at this facility that had really high rents and was quite niche at the time, there weren’t many people doing it so it was quite exclusive, and I’d taken on the financial responsibility on my own. Instead of having three of us doing that, that was now me. The overheads were huge, I had two kids at the time, was coaching for 16 hours a day, trying to develop this thing that I hundred percent believed in but I wasn’t quite living it because I was basically a stressed out zoo human trying to present a natural living philosophy. So I wasn’t living it. It wasn’t entirely honest or authentic in a way. I knew it, I had the knowledge and I had people around me; I just wasn’t living it.
And then one particular day, I was teaching a workshop of this philosophy to some PTs, entrepreneurs and other people that had rocked up that weekend to do the workshop. And I’m then discussing, well if you get your physical, social, spiritual needs met, then you remove human suffering, blah, blah, blah, and the tube train blasted past the building, shook the building, somehow it shook me, and it was a moment of: Wow, bam, I’m a fraud! So within a month, I’d closed the facility. Being honest then with what it meant financially, we ended up bankrupt, broke, back at my parents’ with two kids and just having to learn how to rebuild something out of the brokenness that I had become.
That was kind of in the understanding of what it was. And then from there, over time, I started to rebuild Tony and so I understood then that that didn’t all happen to me; it was happening for me. And out of that, I had the knowledge and knew exactly what I needed to do; I just needed to live it. It soon became instead of me discussing breathwork and not being entirely honest with it, I then had to reinstate breath routine, I had a morning routine, morning ritual. I understood that the closer I can get to nature, the more I can heal, syncing my human biology again.
And then over time, it was just finding more and more ways of living more in sync with human biology. And what’s the best place to look? That’s to go to nature and the natural beings of the world, so out of that came this call: Rewilding human experience. People didn’t quite get it, they couldn’t understand it, and it was too niche. I put together a book proposal and all the publishers were like, no it’s too niche.
Eventually I had an editor from the Star Magazine from the Sunday Times approach me and just said, “I want to interview you for one of the six best coaches.” And I was like, okay. Ego. Loved it, it was great. Which was wonderful, so I met and we sat down and we chatted for probably two hours. I said, sorry, I’d really underestimated it and you thought this was just about a natural movement practice: how to squat and how run, aligned with nature which I can see that because my background has become that, but she then saw there was an education around sleep and movement and play and rest and sunlight and a ground living practice, and then community and friends and family. So it was this physical, social, spiritual thread that was through it; that they were the things that you’d have to align with nature.
She then said “I love it. I’ve scrapped being one of the six best coaches; I’m just going to give you a double page feature.” So we did that and then off the back of that, the name the Natural Lifestylist came. Basically, I’m a rewilding coach: I rewild people’s movement, their sleep, their nutrition and get them out into nature. The stats are like 83% in the UK alone live in urban environments, and we spend like 90 plus percent of our time indoors. It was then like okay, that’s the way things are, for some people that’s not even possible. It might be the whole day indoors, and so how do we then rewild that behaviour?
Then it was, okay, we can start to look at how we use nature as the filter and we look at every part of every day, every part of our life: how does that look in nature and how can I change that habit within that habitat? That’s what is underneath it, really. Rewilding simply means we look to natural beings, natural places of the world to find ways of living that are more in sync with human biology. And then the holistic approach of that that will bring around health and wellbeing.
One of my phrases is that ancestral health is modern day wealth. I’ve been coaching a long time, so you can imagine some of the clients I’ve been seeing, they’ve been on a big journey with me and some even that it may have been 20 years. But what I will say is that I can have someone that’s from teenager through to 80, or student through to billionaire, and it really doesn’t matter where they consider themselves to be on the Maslow’s model of success, which is a monetary-driven ladder of success. If those fundamental needs aren’t met, they’re pretty unhappy. It doesn’t matter where they are–student, billionaire, whoever they are–the more nature I can bring into that lifestyle, the more successful they are as a human being, and then you start to see real happiness and we start to bring back things like joy into our lives, which is a powerful tool, really. For me, I love coaching, but some of it can be so simple for people, that’s the thing. It’s the simplest part that will make a huge impact on someone’s life.
Darren: Yeah, definitely. I think that, what you’ve just said there, is something which is massively overlooked in society by humans. We always look for the most complicated way for a problem that we have: that could be health or that can be happiness. And actually, it’s all within us; it’s all there. I wanted to say we just need to be at one with ourselves, but what I mean is: We just need to be a lot more conscious about what’s going on inside to affect our outer world, but instinctively, we go outside to fix what’s not working inside.
Tony: Exactly. We look to the external world and it’s partly because we’ve lost touch with what the internal world is. Rewilding is not just about “can we go out into nature?” It’s obviously understanding you are nature, that’s the point. The moment we detach or disassociate ourselves from nature, the more unhappy we’re going to be as a species.
It’s very easy to say to somebody: you have to change, you have to alter and you have to be at one with nature. But it involves changing your perception of you and the environment. That’s what it is. Just perception. At the end of the day, I can be this or I can be that. You can alter your perception in a breath, you can alter your perception in a moment, you can alter your perception in night sleep and wake up… That’s it–time for change. But, we have the shackles of the normalised behaviours, what we’ve learnt in our first formative years. That might be from the last trimester in the womb until the age of seven, let’s say, and they’ve become recordings and the tapes that you play out for the rest of your life.
Bruce Lipton is good for looking into that. I like his work and when he says that what you’ve learnt in those years will determine how you play out the rest of your years. And so it depends what you’ve been open to and what you’ve recorded in that time. That’s sometimes what we’re up against and that’s then a language we then need to unravel somehow and go into those early years. And also understand that if you’re a parent–I’m a father now of four kids–and I understand that my behaviours, my children are observing. Not just the language because we learn through observation, but what they’re learning will become the templates for the rest of their lives, so I need to be really responsible and show them the appropriate behaviours. And what would be more appropriate for the world right now than behaving naturally and trying to find ways of living that sync with human biology, that bring around better health and wellbeing?
Darren: Yeah, I agree. Particularly around the children, I’ve noticed with my two boys that it’s exactly like you say. It’s not just about what you do; it’s about how you are, how you behave as a human. The other thing I wanted to pick out of what you’ve just said is around, yeah, we are kind of given this sequence of events or situations when we grow up. I follow Bruce Lipton as well and I think the most challenging thing about it is when you’re an adult, actually understanding that that’s what’s happened when you’ve been growing up. But then in order for you to change and to improve and want to get better, you have to change that kind of movie that’s playing in your unconscious. I think that’s a very challenging thing to A) recognise and B) actually implement.
Tony: Well, it’s how you unravel it. The best thing is having kids because the kids highlight exactly what they see. You’d say, “Oh my god, did I really say that? I really said that; where does that come from?” And then you realise–ah. If you sit in it, then you can see it and you’ll hear it and it’s the ancestral voice coming in. Whether that parent or what your parents inherited in their first six years and so on. It was passed from generation to generation. You wouldn’t even normally know you’re saying it, for instance.
It’s sometimes hard to press a reset button on that. You can go and do some amazing workshops, like Transformational Breath is really good for unscrewing your intellectual lid and just getting deep into the emotional stuff and letting out what it might be–the trauma. There’s some amazing plant medicine ceremonies you can go on. You go and have amazing experiences and that will help you unravel those first years.
Other than that, you have to work much harder because, firstly, you have to highlight what it is and how to get into it and I think breathwork… First of all, it’s free. We talk about sleep and say sleep is the most underestimated wellbeing modality, but I think breath is probably the most underrated. Because, if for instance I’ve had a stress day, let’s call it today and let’s say we had Bow in the bed, we had Tallulah in the bed, and let’s say you didn’t sleep very well. I might feel in the morning, if I don’t have the right sleep habitat, I might feel a bit blasted in the morning, and I feel a bit upregulated so I think I’m going to have some caffeine, right? So I drink some caffeine.
Then I leg out of the house and I’m pacing already to the tube and I get on the tube and I’m surrounded by other people that probably had the same experience. There we are, we’re all emotionally upregulated. That’s the sympathetic nervous systems so that’s our fight-flight- freeze, whatever you want to call it. And then I’m going to go into my workplace, my work experience for the day around other beings that are also upregulated.
Then finally, when it’s time to leave, if I haven’t dealt with that in an appropriate manner, I’m going to go back into the tube experience, arrive at the door. I might have been out of the house for 10 hours; my kids have been waiting for me to get in for 10 hours. You know they’re really excited about it but you’re so stressed out that you are entering the house in the first six years of your life, because that’s what plays out when you’re stressed. You turn into the three-year-old or the five-year-old. That’s what you’re playing out. That’s the point. That’s where you operate at when you reach those really upregulated states.
I then enter the house in that state. Suddenly, I bring that voice of my parent and it might be “Why are they making so much noise? Why are they doing this? Children must be seen, not heard. Blah blah blah.” Imagine all that stuff going on because we listened to it and I could avoid all of that.
I could just go in the morning: I’m just going to do some breathwork. I’ll do five minutes of parasympathetic breath, I feel a bit on edge; I’m going to do this and then I’m going to take a stroll to the tube, ready to pace it. I’ll just take 10% out of my day and I’ll just observe everything that’s going on. I have a look up, take the sky in for a moment because I’m probably going to be in a building all day, get on the tube. I’m not going to sit down; I might be sitting down all day, so I’ll surf or I’ll hang or I’ll squat. And then I arrive wherever I’m going, deal with my day. If I feel that I’m getting upregulated because I’ve got to answer an email or go to go into a stressful meeting, I will sit there and drop into down regulating breaths. Something like four seconds in, six seconds out: breathing through the nose […] and then […] letting go.
Just checking in every now and then; that is enough just to down regulate you. You do 10, 20, 30 cycles, whatever it is. Going home, same experience, I can just do a bit of breath while I walk home. You have a completely different experience with your commute for a start and then when you arrive at the door, just take a moment to really honour and respect what’s about to happen. Do a bit of breath, walk in the door and you’ll be amazed at how that will transform your day but also transform your child’s experience of you as a father.
Because it’s stressful out there. We all have to admit it’s stressful. And why is it stressful? Because we’re not getting our fundamental physical, social, spiritual needs met. For me, it’s always about the wins throughout the day, what can I tick off? I can get movement in by walking somewhere rather than catching a tube, maybe. I can get the amazing sky in my eye even if it’s cloudy; you still need that light. Breathwork, as I say, and then also maybe look at what you’re putting in the body as well. There are examples…
Darren: Yeah, I guess that’s a whole other podcast isn’t it, really? What you’ve just explained there about the differences in the way that you can behave in your day and just that little split second there of awareness and taking that 10, 20 seconds. It’s almost like resetting yourself, isn’t it? Or doing a kind of little soft reset on yourself, and breathing in and breathing out.
And like you say, before you walk in the front door, just taking that–it may take five seconds…about what you’re going to do. Because I think if we look at it honestly, when we put the key in the door and we go in the door in the evenings, we want to be engaged with our kids. We want to be as excited as they are, but like you say, we let life overtake us. It could be an email, it could be a conversation you have with a colleague, and we just bring that into the house, don’t we? And then these little people that are running around, we’re putting all of our stuff onto them.
Tony: Yeah. So then that’s what they inherit and that then becomes the templates that they play out through their life. It’s fascinating, isn’t it? And those are just micro hits. Peter Gray has a book, Free to Learn that we’re reading because we’re a home-schooling family. There’s a part in that that I love, I bang on about it a lot and I talk about it in lots of conversations: the play aspect and just looking at what does childhood look like in nature? He asked 10 leading anthropologists, what does childhood look like in nature?
They look at three geographic locations, three separate tribes, and they say, these are some of the most well-balanced, happy individuals I found, i.e., well-balanced children in these three tribes. How do they achieve that? What are they doing? From infancy through to the age of 16, all they do is play all day. But what they do in that time is they learn everything they need for their adult world in form of play. They learn to track and they learn to build shelter and fire. It’s really sophisticated systems they’re learning, but they’re learning through play. They are the animals, they are the plants, they are the rocks. They are the other beings in their tribe because they do all that through play. What would be probably the closest we could get to understanding one consciousness is, what it is to be everything.
So that builds stuff like compassion and empathy and stuff like that as well. And they have a closer connection to nature than anything else because they are nature; they’ve done it all. Then they’ve learnt everything they need to be an adult, and they can go into the adult tribe, but there’s no adult intervention. They’re not taught by adults to behave; they just play, right?
If we then flipped that and we say that’s how children learn through observation, and they learn all their adult behaviours through play and being adults in play, what is it that our tribes of kids are learning? That was quite powerful for me, it was like, wow, can you imagine that? No wonder they’re looking into their devices and rubbernecking into their device and no wonder they’re ordering coffees and going out and doing this. To remove the hypocrite from that would be: you can’t berate on your kids for screen time if you’ve got your face stuck in an iPhone because they’re just playing at being an adult. And then once they reach adulthood, that’s who they become again. It’s fascinating. Nature is the filter in that…
Darren: And that’s why you can quite easily see how we lose our way to our true self, I guess, don’t we? People are talking about this onion and you take the layers off; actually what you’re doing from when you’re a child to when you become an adult and onwards, is you’re adding all these layers and you’re further, further removing yourself away from who you really are, how you’ve come to be in existence.
Tony: Yeah. Recovery is used in other terms, but it’s like recovering, isn’t it? It’s like you’re re-covering something and we need to uncover it, try and get to what is that underneath? We all love putting terms around authentic self and finding yourself but ultimately, that means going into those earliest years and unravelling that. But I think if it’s parents that are listening, then it’s an obvious one, isn’t it? Because your kids kind of highlight or will flag out for you what it is. You can hear it. You will hear it in the way you communicate to them or if you lose your shit, let’s say, then you know where it’s coming from.
If you can feel it brewing, it’s best to kind of walk away and work with breath because it’s the fastest down regulating technique you can use, and then you’ll view it differently. I’ve had it when I’m trying to write stuff and I’d write chapters or I could feel that I was getting stressed because I couldn’t quite understand what it was I was trying to do. And there was loads of noise in the room and I could feel myself just getting upregulated.
Why are they noisy? And then I realise they’re playing and I’m not viewing it as play. Once I could basically take myself away, do a bit of breath then come back to the room, everything would become play again and I could see that. They’re learning everything they need to in this moment. What do I want them to learn? Do I want them to learn and observe the playful person within that experience or do I want them to observe the agitated person they might become when they’re older again?
Darren: Yeah. Tony, I want to ask you next… I know this is completely off on a tangent of what we’ve been talking about, but I’m really interested to find out about your Land’s End to John O’Groats run and what brought it about. I was following you religiously on Instagram, your Instagram stories, and you went through a very big emotional journey. You had a big issue with your ankle as well. I’d really like to dig in a little bit more about how that went and why you did it in the first place.
Tony: Why I did it. The run was to run from Land’s End to John O’Groats. It depends on how you plan, it but we wanted to get it to 900 miles. I wanted to do 30 miles a day for 30 consecutive days, I then chose September as a perfect month to do it. That’s in the roots of it. Also in the roots is I was born with a deformity in my feet, I was the longest baby on record at that time in Reading hospital. I had taken some kind of mad adaptation on to be able to fit in the womb and my feet were kind of curled underneath my armpit somehow. I had to have plaster cast boots fitted weekly for the first 12 weeks and then I was put in boots with a brace. So that’s in there.
I think that was in the first trauma, if I really go right back to the roots of why I do what I do today. I was in a ceremony and these boots kept coming up for me and this message of “lose the shoes.” The initial thing was I’m going to run from Land’s End to John O’Groats and I’m going to take these boots with me and I’m going to throw them in the sea at the end, but the message would be I’m going to do it barefoot. I’m an advocate of barefoot running or running in barefoot technology. I know that’s an oxymoron but it’s a shoe that is puncture proof but still gives you feedback and allows the mechanical, anatomical physiological decision to be made appropriately by the foot as in they’re wide enough in the toe box and they’re minimal footwear. I’m an advocate of that anyway, but this was I’m going to do it barefoot. With that, as soon as I said I’m going to 900 miles in a month barefoot, people just do this first of all like a crazy look, but it challenges the social norm, doesn’t it?
With that, socially extreme eyebrows are raised and then I can go in, “Well, it’s a biologically normal behaviour to run barefoot; it’s just not socially normal in our tribe of influence today. In some cultures, it is perfectly normal.” Anyway, that was part of it and then it was like, okay, that social eyebrow raising is a real opportunity to make change because it grabs attention and I know the press will want to get involved and I knew it would create a platform. I remember listening to Greta Thunberg: the bigger the platform, the bigger the responsibility. I understood that you could flip that into: I can create a platform and be responsible with it, and I can raise awareness for something that’s really aligned with that, which is the environment.
The pronged attack was that I would run to lose the shoes. The second one would be for human potential and just show what the human being is capable of. What our physiology is capable of in our mind, and that running is beyond a cardiovascular exercise. For me, it’s a physical, social and spiritual experience. The third part was, what can I do with that? I can then raise awareness. So I chose six organisations to raise funds for, which were Client Earth, Care International, Greenpeace UK, Surfers Against Sewage, Rainforest Alliance, and Extinction Rebellion. So I thought that’s what I’d do.
I then thought I have an opportunity here. I can interview people, so I get sustainability/ environmental influencers on board and I can interview them along the path as well, interviews that would be done somewhere on the run. That was in the bones of it. That was kind of the idea that was manifesting and then it was just a matter of getting the mileage in and stuff like that, leading up to it. And to get the feet to adjust to that kind of mileage as well. You know, you can go in with expectations but reality is there are so many variables in an event that big that will throw up along the path. You never know what can happen.
Disaster struck for me on like, even day four. I had a thorn that went in my foot, it was throwing out the way I could load the left foot, so I was overloading the right side and then day after day, 120 miles in like that, you can imagine the impact it was having. I was forced to retire for three days so I’d already lost the 30 miles a day for 30 days and then I had to up mileage beyond that to try and rescue it. Then amazingly, it was an amazing process–all of that and what was unravelling from it. Also, there was I guess the vulnerability for me that was highlighted. Going into it, I think Ross Edgley nailed it with “naive enough to start and stubborn enough to finish.”
Again, it’s expectations going in. Everyone would say, you are not worried about this and that? I said I know can do it; I’m determined to do it. I know I can do it but I can’t discuss what might happen along the way.
So that was the first instance. And then I got back into it and was really flowing again and then towards the end, like, on day 26, I went a bit up east and got a bit lost in a forest in Scotland. GPS wasn’t working and then I had to navigate about 20 miles in, I think, that day so I was pretty short anyway. Then I could see a path and then the path opened up, then I could see a stream, I lept over the stream. A rock displaced, sprained my ankle, created an upper ankle sprain. Then got back down to the road and then managed about 200 metres and then it was obvious that it was a proper injury at that stage. I basically had to quit that day.
And then we found ourselves back at HQ. At that stage, we were staying at this place called the Black Isle, not far from Loch Ness. So James who was supporting me as the cameraman, driver everything–I kind of put loads of responsibility on him and he was amazing–he took Katarina and the kids out, they went to Loch Ness and then we could just kind of sit in the adversity. This is where perception comes in again. I was broken, tears in my eyes, sobbing, head in my hands, and I’m broken at that point. There’s not much left in me because I’ve just done 26 days of a brutal journey–the pilgrimage, let’s say–and I was a proper victim. I was thinking “how in the hell… I’ve blown it… I can’t go any further.” My foot had blown up so much that I couldn’t put weight on it, so how the hell am I going to run on this?”
And then I had to go into: I know all this stuff and you can change anything in a breath or you can alter your perception of something. You can heal yourself in it. If you really put your mind to it, you can do it. And then lots of messages were coming in. People that had seen it, so I had people firstly telling me, don’t worry, you can just do it in 33 days, do it in 35 days. And then others that really knew what the process was and you need that marker to be able to complete it. That’s how you do it, right? Some contacted me with, “You’ve got everything inside of you to do this. Everything up until this point is about now and I know you can do this.”
And then other ones were like, “You’re the minority of the minority of the minority of the minority. No one else is out there doing this; you are. So you have to get yourself back out to do it.” That started to motivate me a little bit and then I started breathwork again, really deep breaths, and then I’d meditate and then I’d have this thing about, I call it “the pain cave.” The pain cave on this particular day, I go in the back of the cave in my meditation and I sit there and there’s a grizzly bear there. The grizzly bear is really wise and the grizzly bear says “It’s okay for you. You’re far more powerful than I am because you can choose to be at the back of the cave or you can choose to be out of the cave. I don’t have a choice; I’m stuck at the back of the cave, so you’re much more powerful than I am.” I was like, this is it.
I said I know can get out of the cave and I had to then focus on the light and I could go out and then. And I’d Lola, my daughter’s voice of, “You’re not going to quit, are you Papa?” And that really got me through it. And then I just flipped a switch in my head: I know I can do this. Went into breathwork then started using ice and cold immersion and then heat and then mobility. And then already I was standing up and I was walking. It was great. And then I had loads of sleep in that day as well and then lots of great nutrition. It was like sleep, nutrition, ice, breathwork. Simple things but enough for me to be able to heal within a very short window of time and then go and run 30 miles the next day, 47 the day after that and then 57 on the final day. So it was kind of like I did double the amount of mileage on the last day, nearly 60 miles, with a sprained ankle.
On day 29, I took the decision to tape the ankle so I taped like the tibia and the fibula together all the way up to my shin bone basically, around the calf, just to give it extra support, and then off I went. It’s not to say there weren’t moments of a really sharp kind of “this is a nightmare,” and then you go back into, “I’ve everything in me right now to be able to complete this.” It’s like this conversation between the two, and when you do endurance events like that, it’s like you’ve lost your shit. You kind of go off on just tangents in your thoughts and you see many sides of your personality and your condition and you unravel it like the onion, like we were talking about earlier.
There were moments when I was having a deep conversation with my granddad. He was on my shoulder and running with me and we’re kind of running along. He was a Geordie and we had a proper dialogue and he was like, “You didn’t think we were going to make it that easy for you, did you? This is bloody tough and you have to dig deep but it doesn’t mean you won’t come out of it with rewards.” And as he said that, I looked across and there was a massive rainbow sticking out of the sea. Then I carried on trotting for a bit and then I found a big sign to the Glenmorangie distillery and that was the whiskey he drank. So there was like subtle things.
And then I started to really tune in because at that stage, I was just immersed in nature the whole day, working on breath while I was running. Constant rhythms. It’s almost like a very deep meditation that you go into when you get to that level. And I think just profound things were happening for me along the route of meeting people that were there just when they needed to be there to assist me in some way. Just incredible. This is the other thing of taking it back into breath and trying to be in the moment, it’s that we’re so overwhelmed at times and we’re so distracted that we’re missing out on those little nudges and nuances that might be happening in the day to assist us. That’s how it felt to me. That might be woo-woo to some listeners, but for me that that was definitely the experience and that was what I was going through at that moment.
Darren: I can definitely relate to that. It kind of gives me goose bumps when you talk about it because I know from my endurance events that I do, the body is an amazing thing and it is limitless. It is limited, I believe, by your own internal thoughts in your mind. These conversations, if you are tuned in, can be so profound and can help you achieve whatever it is you’ve set out to achieve but it’s just being aware of what’s going on inside you, what the mind is telling you, being open and just being there present in that moment, isn’t it?
Tony: Exactly. I could have tried to override it on day 26. “Now, I’m just going to keep going, keep going.” I could have done all that but I just felt, I said from the beginning, I’m just going to become the process. I have to accept everything that’s thrown at me, and I was very honest in blogging about it. I didn’t want to be out there like some David Goggins character and it’s all, “Yeah!” For me, it’s not the reality of it. I needed to experience everything and I felt it was amazing for that, if you’re really open.
And I think there’s more in than that than there is if you’re some amazing endurance athlete. I mean, you can accept that, depending on the event, the body is essentially just a vessel for the mind. It’s the mind: there are so many lessons there that can be learnt on both sides of that. I’m sure David Goggins has many lessons, right? But that wasn’t the way I was going to learn on this run. I needed to accept at one point I was broken. Would I have completed it if I didn’t listen on day 27 to take the day out? And then had I not done that, would I have learnt the human potential, not just in completing. My original intention going in was I didn’t believe that physiology would break down because I had so much trust in it. The human potential.
But that’s talking on a physiological level. Now I’ve unravelled something else about human potential: how powerful that mind is to turn a situation from being completely broken and a victim that can’t load his leg into finishing on double the distance on the final day with that sprained ankle. The medical profession would have said no loading: put a ski boot on and no load bearing for six weeks. I woke up, I finished at 9:30 in the evening after running for 12 hours–57 miles in 12 hours–and then went to bed about 10 o’clock, woke up at 5:30 and caught a flight home. It’s just putting that into context alone. It’s like it’s amazing, isn’t it? What we can actually do.
Endurance events, I’ve done. I was in the army. I’ve done a lot of mileage but if I think back–if I even tried to kick out a good half marathon barefoot or to an extent got a stiff or this or that, I didn’t come near that. I wasn’t to the point where there’s no way I could have run. I think even on day 31, it was like I could go and do that again. People say finish strong. Finish strong; that’s how you enter the next event or next day, but you have to understand that finish strong, I believe for me now, means in the mind. Finish with the mind. I reached something really profound there, so I now feel like “Tony 2.0” from that event. I really do believe I’m a very different being.
Darren: I agree. I think it is, hearing you talk about that. And I think it comes back to us in the modern world, society, we expect that help is going to come externally, isn’t it? Whether that’s health, whether that’s endurance or anything else like that. But it does come from you internally, and it’s really tuning into that. I don’t want to sound cliché, but it’s really going deep inside yourself to pull out what is available to you and what you can actually do and what you can actually achieve. It’s not putting your mind to it, necessarily, but it is understanding the messages that your body’s telling you and what you can pull out from that.
Tony: Yeah. I think we have to learn so much about the internal world. That’s part of the coaching process, isn’t it? The self-learning and self-care comes in because you start to learn. You learn more and more about yourself and your internal world. Of course, we’re always going to look to the external world if we don’t know how to handle ourselves and I think that starts again in the early years, isn’t it? We start looking to the external world. In my situation, I didn’t have the physio, I didn’t have a doctor; it’s just me, Katarina and the kids. And James, this amazing guy, decides to join the journey because he wanted to film and document it. Everything was around me. They were like the five people I needed around me at that time.
Darren: Yeah, it’s amazing. So, Tony, you talked a little bit about your morning routine, but have you got a daily routine that you follow in terms of fulfilling what drives you, the natural lifestyle, what you’re about, how you get into nature, how you rewild? I see you quite a lot doing the cold water stuff in the lake in London. What’s a typical day like for you?
Tony: We’re kind of creating a lifestyle that is just a lifestyle so it feels less like “I have a job” or would feel less structured, I guess. I still have clients I coach, of course. I have four days of the week that I coach clients so that involves a lot of movement, it involves a lot of talking, it involves a lot of this kind of talking.
I have a morning routine normally that involves getting the locomotive joints working, getting the ankles, the hips and then unravelling the spine a little as I’m nearly 45 now, so experiences can be a little bit different in the morning. So I just unravel that. As long I can get moving, I get shakes going as well. Then I get into the nervous system and wake it up a little and then I’m in my 30s again, I guess. And then I sit and I breathe.
I hydrate as well. I take this probiotic called the Seed which is a synbiotic, so it’s a prebiotic and a probiotic, and I take that. That’s the first thing; hydration. Then I have a move around, then I have my mobility–locomotive joints. And then it depends on how I’m feeling, Darren, because some mornings I might fill upregulated and some mornings I might feel like I’m so chilled, I need to upregulate.
If I’m upregulated and I want to just start my day calm and set my intention for the day: what is it Tony wants to be focusing on today? I have a gratitude practice which also sounds like cliché, people talk about it, but it’s just basically a simple, “I’m grateful for whatever it is, and I’m grateful for my health, my wealth, my happiness and my family.” And then I sit and I do my breathwork. That might be five minutes on an app that I use. I’m linking this in, it’s by Eddie Stern. The breathing app.
I’ll give you a quick upload of how that sounds. This is an in breath. […] Have you got that? And this is an out breath […] The in breath I set at four seconds and the out breath is set at six seconds. The longer the out breath, the more you’ll lower your heart rate and your blood pressure, which brings you into that parasympathetic state. And that’s if I’m upregulated and I want to down regulate a bit. And then I go and get in the cold tub or I’d go to the ponds in Hampstead and I’d get in the cold ponds of Hampstead and that involves getting out in nature.
And then I go into coaching and then I have just stuff like parenting. We don’t have any furniture in our house so we ground live. I mean sitting furniture! That’s not saying no furniture–it sounds a bit weird. We ground live so if we’re dining together, we’re all in different rest positions on the ground. There’s no chair. My understanding is that we live in a sedentary culture anyway, so the areas or environments that I can take charge of, why would I have compromising patterns?
There’s 100 different rest positions in nature that we’ve observed. We only have one in the zoo but there’s multiple ones in nature. Each one of those is a micro hit with how to stand, walk, run, jump, lift, with all the appropriate shapes unravelling that would be in those postures. So that’s kind of where we’re at. We live on a predominantly plant-based diet so we’re 95% plant-based. And my sleep, I guess, is in there.
Sleep is we down regulate the house in the evening. That involves switching bulbs on to amber. Light bulbs that are remote control that you can switch to amber. That wipes out the blue and green spectrums of light which will be suppressing someone’s melatonin. Why is that important? Melatonin is a regulatory system of your digestive system, not only a sleep hormone. We have a hormone called ghrelin and a hormone called leptin. What happens is you need melatonin to suppress ghrelin otherwise you still, “I need to eat, I need to eat,” that’s the ghrelin hormone. The other one is the leptin which is a satiating hormone which tells you “I’ve had enough.” You need leptin to go up and ghrelin to go down.
Melatonin’s key role within that regulatory system is it suppresses ghrelin and picks up leptin. People think, well, I’m really hungry in the evening, then check what’s happening with the melatonin. It might be once you get melatonin back in the system. Lighting is one and then there’s other stuff, studies around metabolism hormones and a process called apoptosis which is how you transform unhealthy cells into healthy cells and you need melatonin for that. There’s studies around cancer now of night shift workers versus day shift workers. If there’s any of the fitter dads out there that are night shift working, this is a really important study.
They showed nightshift work in a simulated night experiment, with lots of light. They had a dark chamber, darkened that room for sleep. Then they had the same simulated night shift worker experience as group one, but they wore amber glasses that blocked out the blue and green spectrums. And then measured a urine test of their melatonin in the morning and group one, no melatonin; group two, high melatonin; group three, high melatonin. Just simply if you knew you were having to work in the evening or late, it’s to just change the habitat and that will help keep your hormones in check which then of course is going to be an important factor. As a male especially, it’s to really just check your hormones and the systems around you that might be affecting them.
That’s sleep for me, and we go to bed pretty early. I’m normally asleep by 10 and then that means I can get up… So I’m in bed by nine; I call it the new nine-to-five, where all the real work is done, you know? Between nine and five. And then I’m not so obsessed by sleep. We have these obsessions and I think it’s good for the listeners as well. I’ve read so many books on sleep science now and the absurdity around sleep debts and sleep deprivation if you don’t get eight hours. Again, if we’re looking at nature how would I sync that with human biology and nature?
We’re led to believe that with a sleep debt you’re at risk with diabetes, obesity, inflammation, and autoimmune: all that stuff can come through from sleep deprivation. Whereas if you then go to studies in nature again, Professor Siegel from University of California looked at three tribes, different geographic locations, they studied them for one 1,165 days. And they could see that within those tribes, not one of those members are sleeping for eight hours: they sleep between 5.7 and 7.1 hours. They don’t have the obesity and they don’t have the diabetes that we’re being led to believe. So I think the difference is of course, it’s just the habitat. So you have to have the amber lights or clean up the air in the home or stuff like that. You can just think of how a sleep setting would look in nature and try and bring as much of that into the house as you can.
Then I might wake up in the night, but I’m not stressed about it because I’m in a biologically dark room, how it would be achieved in nature, so I know I’m not messing with my melatonin and stuff like that. I just play with ideas like that for sleep and that’s kind of my sleep. Then it rolls into the morning again, of how I feel when I wake up, you know? My morning routine starts with the night time routine; that’s the easiest way of settling that one.
Darren: I like the way you flipped it: the new nine-to-five. I think that’s very good. I’m very similar to you in terms of going to bed early and getting up early. But what about fitness Tony? Or is that just part of your daily movement? Do you take part in any fitness? Obviously, you used to be a personal trainer.
Tony: I don’t. I think for me, exercise and fitness are part of the human zoo culture, aren’t they? We originally would have been this playing, natural movement species, and we are that when we’re young, and then we’re put into a classroom, you sit down. Play and physical activity is taken away and turned into a specialist subject called physical education which later becomes adult exercise. Which we then either hate because we had a terrible experience in the first formative years through PE, because of the specialised subject of PE. But actually beneath it we’re all generalist movers.
I do have a movement practice. I play with balance or balance on rails or try to configure the way that my ankle, my knee and the hip will behave while balancing. So balancing on rails. I run, of course, I barefoot run or with barefoot technology–what we discussed earlier. I hang, I do straight arm and bent-arm strengths, techniques with gymnastic rings and stuff like that. I climb and I have crawling practices that I do and then, as I said, I ground live. Ground living is just like what would be yoga practice to someone. It’s just living on the ground which means I’m moving all different ranges so I’m really mobile in that sense.
And I think as time has gone on, I honour more of a mobility practice than I do a strength practice, because that enables me to keep moving and there’s longevity in that. Whereas, if I keep just building on strength and doing exercise I just get stiffer in more dominant ranges. It’s really: as closer to nature as I can take movement, the better for me as a practice. If there is anyone listening, have a look at MovNat; it’s a good discipline. There’s some nice disciplines and practices you can take on there.
I generally just move. I move as much as I can through a landscape, I swim as well, in nature rather than a pool. I think climbing is a great discipline because of just the ranges and the mobility. You have to move differently when you climb; you can’t be blowing your arms up, so it’s a very different discipline, and then a great thing to be doing with the kids because they’ll learn a great skill set there.
Darren: Yeah, absolutely. You’re obviously saying you’ve got movement practices, but would you agree or disagree that your strength is going to come from these moving practices that you implement anyway, aren’t they?
Tony: Yeah. Because again it’s that I’m working with my own body weight the whole time. What happens is you start to see the physiology that nature intended you to have rather than the aesthetic building your ego wants you to have. The T-shirt muscles are one thing, but can you move in the T-shirt?
Darren: Yeah, exactly. It’s quite often you see these people that might be able to lift whatever they can lift in the gym, but then struggle to move just daily.
Tony: And you can go anywhere with movement practices. You can make it more strict and become more specialised. Like for me, barefoot running is just a micro element of the physical movement system. Movement is a micro element of the physical system. So you have movement, you have sleep, you have rest, you have play, you have sunlight, you have sex, you have water, you have digestion and food. That’s all physical needs. The movement aspect of that, if I take movement out of the physical self, there’s running, there’s jumping, there’s lifting, there’s carrying, there’s quadrupedal movement, there’s balancing. And then there’s a ground practice underneath all of that, that helps nourish all of that.
Squatting, like resting squats and things like that, I think are incredibly important. Trying to get your squats so the squat feels less like an exercise; it actually feels like a rest position. From that, you know that you’ll have the appropriate shape and mobility in ranges in the lower extremities to be able to stand, balance, walk, run, lift. So there’s overlap in it. I am in a very fortunate position, of course, because I have clients that I coach as well so I get to move with them. If I count my movement with my clients, that shapes physiology.
But if I don’t have that, like we were away…. For instance, we had 17 days out over the Christmas period and I still had movement, I still honour something in the day. I’m still moving. I’m an opportunist a lot of the time. So let’s say I’m in the tube. When I catch the tube, I don’t sit. I choose to surf so I don’t hold on to any rails. That’s one thing. It’s like a stability exercise. I squat as well instead of standing. And then I hang, so I put my hands up on the rails above and I hold on while the tube’s moving. The strength and also just the understanding of your weight in your hands and your grip strength will just thank you for that. It’s a powerful tool. And then if there’s the escalator or the stairs, of course, I’ll choose the stairs. If there’s an escalator with a lift, I choose the escalator and I run up it. I’m always looking for micro hits throughout the day rather than trying to add too much into it to overcomplicate it.
Darren: Yeah and I think that’s really good because obviously then that means, like you say, you don’t have this big event where you have to do half an hour or an hour or whatever it is exercise; you’re getting it in consistently throughout the day. And I think that’s very key, it’s consistency, isn’t it? In your movement, in upregulating your heart rate, down regulating it, and all that kind of stuff.
Tony: Yeah, it’s exactly that. It’s consistency. It’s exercise punctuated with some kind of daily routine. It’s kind of becoming consistent because life doesn’t work out like that. Like today, there’s no way this morning I would have had time to go to a gym. There’s no way this afternoon I’d have time to go to a gym, so I’d have to sacrifice that. But I’ve now changed my rest position probably eight times since I’ve been on this podcast. On the ground, I’ve gone from kneeling to single leg kneeling to squatting. That could be a Netflix binge, it could be a change of ground rest positions as you’re watching Netflix and just tune into your body a bit more. You could be brushing your teeth standing on one leg, balancing.
The mobility and stuff I do in the morning, I mean, that’s contradicting myself a little there, isn’t it? But I have a morning ritual and so that’s been the same kind of discipline for many years now. That’s probably about being more like a cat and learning to pandiculate, trying to re-enter the body, I guess. It doesn’t feel like an exercise, does that make sense? More of mindfully moving to get more grounded again.
Darren: Yeah. And all of this to me, when you talk about it, it is all very basic stuff, but it’s often interesting how we don’t consider any of that. You were talking about naturally squatting. And I think I saw an Instagram story you did with your daughters. You demonstrated how they just naturally squat and you would squat. I actually try and do that every morning now; I try and naturally squat and I can’t hold my own body weight up without holding onto something. I’m gradually getting better.
Tony: Yeah, because that will come through consistency. To start with, we can be compromised in the ankle joint or the hip. But over time, that exercise that you’re performing at the moment will become more restful, and it will. It’s a progression the more you do it, of course. Then there’s the Ido Portal challenge which was to squat for 30 minutes a day for 30 days but what I often found is people that come in, they haven’t really addressed what’s going on in the ankle or the hip or whatever. And that’s a foundation of how you squat, right?
Think of a child, they have to go through multiple different positions, they get to a squat and then they stand up. It’s like our ultimate position to keep going back to check in with how you’re standing and if you have poor foundations, then surely you’re going to have a poor stance or poor walking gait or running gait.
I developed a tutorial for it, so we can put that in the show notes. It’s a six-week tutorial, so it looks at the mechanics of the feet, the ankles, knees, the hips, and then you build the posture. Over time, you just keep building and then eventually you get to the Ido Portal element of doing 30 minutes a day for 30 days, but that’s not one sitting. You can get it to one sitting but it will be like I do a minute here. Set a timer, 30 minutes, do a minute here. Every time you get up, you hit pause; every time you go back to a squat, you hit go and you accumulate the 30 minutes. As you’re finding, there’s certain areas where they are compromised so you have to know how to deal with those. That’s why I put a tutorial out there: it’s addressing that.
Darren: That’s really useful. I’ll check that out. Tony, I could talk to you for hours around this topic but before we wrap up, what would you say are the five key actions that the listeners could take away and start implementing some natural lifestyle into their daily existence?
Tony: I think the first one would be breathe. We put the breathing app in there, that’s by Eddie Stern, you can work with that. That’s one system of breath. The other one is look at Wim Hof’s method of breathing. So in that instance, if it was like 3:30 in the afternoon, rather than smash the caffeine or the chocolate or the sugars, use a bit of Wim Hof’s breath and upregulate your tempo and it’ll put you in a more alert state. Then you can use a down regulating for… if I’m stressed, stressful phone call, stressful email, stressful meeting, interview, whatever, entering the house, dealing with the kids, whatever. That’s down regulating. You don’t have to do like a minute; it’s just six cycles of that. Four seconds in, six seconds out. Everyone can do that, right? Then the upregulating will help pick you up so you don’t end up, as I say, smashing caffeine or sugars or anything like that. That’s breathing. That’s one box ticked.
Number two would be get outside. Set a timer. 83% of the UK, we’re living in urban environments. We spend 90% plus time indoors so 10% is two hours, 24 minutes. At least try and get two hours, I guess. Set a timer and try to achieve that. Weekends mainly and really work at accumulating more if you can to compensate for what you might not have achieved in the week. The reason for getting outside, the studies show, like we were talking about breathwork to downregulate and remove the fight and flight. Just going out into nature does that. It already drops you in. So there’s loads of studies on how the heart rate, blood pressure, are being dropped into parasympathetic state just by looking at nature scenes.
Number three, I would go sleep. Really try and create this… Shawn Stevenson has a nice term; he calls it the sleep sanctuary. Creating a sleep habitat that is nourishing so that the real work is done in there. You want to achieve these amazing macro states within that sleep. Anabolic sleep, whatever you want to call it. All the cellular repair, all the nourishing work will be done in that time, so try and really hone in on sleep. There’s some great stuff, there’s light bulbs you can buy for the bedroom which you can switch to amber, you can buy amber glasses which help deal with the lighting and air purifiers or plants in the bedroom that help clean up the air. If you’re sleeping in that bedroom for eight hours a night as we’re led to believe we should be, that’s breathing in and out the same air so it’s quite important you clean up that. Bedding materials, maybe look at more natural fibres and natural materials you can get in there as well; that’s going to add to that. That’s three.
Number four would be become that movement opportunist. If you’re going to the gym, still go to the gym; I’m not berating. It’s just look at more playful ways of moving, I guess. Try and tap into that. Go play tag with the kids in the park. Become a human tree and they have to climb around you or climb over you and you have to put your arms out the whole time and they have to do one lap or something like that. Balance on the kerbs, climb the walls, do all the things that you would have done at some stage before you got domesticated.
Number five would just be have compassion because we live in a world of frustration, right? We get frustrated at this person, that person, this environment. What we discussed is that there’s first six years of life or first seven years of life and you don’t know what someone else had to go through in that period of time. So compassion for that. That might be your parents, it might be your grandparents or it could be a neighbour, it could be someone in the office, it could be someone on the commute. Just compassion for what it is they might have had to endure in their earliest years and is what is playing out in their adult life.
Darren: Yeah. I think number five for me is very relevant. I think we are losing compassion for other human beings and not considering, like you say, what they’ve had to endure to where they are today and which obviously is shaping the way they’re reacting and responding to life. We could all do with just a realisation that we can become more compassionate. It’s amazing, I think it’s been a great podcast. But before I wrap up, what do you feel that I haven’t asked you which would benefit the listeners?
Tony: I guess it would be like “what would that piece of advice be?” I get asked this: What advice would you give your 20-year-old self. For me it’s: Trust the process, respect the process, be patient mastering the process. And when you understand the process, just be. The key there is being patient. It’s like, we’re all in such a rush to get there. When we look at people around us, we might see, “Ah! How is it they are where they are and I’m not where they are? Why can’t I get to where they are? Or they’ve accelerated far, being successful or whatever it is. I think the key is just to sit back a bit and understand that…
I’m one of those people that it has taken me 10 years to really work to get where I am now. 10 years. There are people I know, they’ve been coaches for like five minutes but they’re suddenly, “Wham! It works,” and they’re off. Why is that? I could look at it that way and get frustrated with it, but the reality is I’ve got 10 years’ worth of experience and it’s the experience where all the learning is. Everything is a lesson, even the really horrible shitty stuff that happens to you in life, it happens for you. You’ve become an amazing being for it. The faster you are to understand that, the quicker you can turn the situation into a growth promoting situation and alter your perception of it. It’s like it’s all happening for you, take your time, be patient and sit back and listen to the bear at the back of the cave and what wisdom he has to tell you. Some valuable lessons in the adversity of life. Everything is a lesson if you just sit back and listen to it, so just take your time and be kind to yourself.
Darren: Definitely, I think that’s quite profound because it’s something which I will freely hold my hand up to which I have been guilty of. Patience. We’re living in a modern world where everything is either in the palm of our hands or in Amazon’s warehouse, unfortunately, and we expect it to be there yesterday. Patience and trust in the process.
The other thing there which I think the listeners should rewind and listen to, and that is all of the struggles that we go through in life are lessons and we just need to recognise that they are lessons. If you do that, I think you’ll understand things and grow much better as a person.
Tony: Absolutely. And that’s what it’s about: becoming more human, right?
Darren: Yeah, definitely. All right, Tony, thank you very much. How can people connect with you, get a hold of you? Obviously, I’ll put in the show notes the tutorial that you’ve got in there but I know you’ve got various different mediums in which you communicate with us all.
Tony: @theNaturalLifestylist on Instagram, that’s kind of the big one for me right now, I guess. I blog a lot on there. My website TonyRiddle.com and on there you can find workshops that are happening, retreats that are happening and stuff like that for the immersive kind of experience. Then on Twitter, @FeedTheHuman, but to be honest, that kind of just comes off my Instagram account. Instagram makes more sense to me these days. And then there is the tutorials which are on Vimeo but you can find those through the website. There’s one on barefoot running, there’s one on squatting. If you put a link in there, I’ll get you a discount code organised and we’ll send that over so your listeners have that at 50% off.
Darren: Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, Tony, thanks very much for your time again today. It’s been great talking to you and I really, really appreciate your time.
Tony: Thanks for the experience, man. It’s been brilliant.
Darren: Thanks for listening to the Fitter Healthier Dad podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please hit subscribe and I would really appreciate it if you could leave a review on iTunes. All the links mentioned in the episode will be in the show notes and a full transcription is over at FitterHealthierDad.com.