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Welcome to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast, where you can learn how to improve your diet, lose fat and get fitter in a sustainable and fun way without spending hours in the gym. Here is your host Darren Kirby.

Welcome back to the podcast! Guys, this is our number one podcast for men in their forties who want to improve their health through nutrition and fitness. This is episode one twenty six, and on today’s episode, we’re going to be talking about blood glucose and how maintaining a stable blood sugar is key to our long term health. Joining me is Anthony Anna Bonham, the co-founder of Veri an app which tracks our blood sugar. Anthony started very following his own health issues. He has experienced first hand the pain of using poor and ineffective tools, the misinformation and the one size fits all guidance of nutrition. But before we get into the podcast, I want to take a moment to mention the show sponsors. Athletic Greens Athletic Greens was created by its founder, Chris. After years of gut health issues that left him facing health crisis with no solutions in sight. Despite his best efforts to maintain a balanced and nourishing diet, Chris’s body struggled to absorb and synthesize nutrients. Chris developed athletic greens with a mission of creating the highest efficacy and bioavailable and nutritionally complete supplement to help your body function as it’s supposed to, no matter your

Age or activity level. Hi, Anthony, thanks very much for joining me on the podcast today. How are you?

I’m very good. Pleasure to be here, Darren. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks very much for coming onto the podcast. And yeah, it’s a hugely interesting topic. I think glucose and blood glucose monitoring. But for people that haven’t come across you before Anthony and vary your company. Can you give us a little bit of insight as to how you’ve got to where you’re at today?

Absolutely. So personally, I played soccer growing up pretty wholeheartedly, and I was injured at the age of 15, which then I had a lot of issues with with mental health first and then then with which followed then to to physical consequences. So to say so I started my body wasn’t anymore. The same athlete body that used to be reactive, pretty poorly to food, had trouble with with with weight management, then started started gaining weight and was just very lost with with with my own health. And that then sparked the interest towards nutrition and human biology. I studied bioinformatics and economics in the University of in Aalto University here in Finland, where I met my co-founder Vern, who who, you know, we built a lot of things together for six years before starting very but at the time. At when we when we had we went to work for it with a bunch of companies that we knew that were in the forefront of health. So or or my co-founder and I work for Aurora before starting there and I was working for Metro Health, that is OIC alumni company based in the Bay Area. Mental mental health therapeutics company. So I worked with, worked with them. Saw the good, bad and ugly of the U.S. health care system. And you know, I was just super drawn into building something the in the metabolic health space.

My co-founder, Verne as well shares a very similar type of story with me where he’s been diagnosed with the ulcer colitis when he was growing up at the age of 15, had a lot of issues with that. But today he is drug free and he’s been able to tackle ulcerative colitis just with with eating the right foods. So he is our inspiration and there is so many things that we could. I guess the modern, modern human could do with just tackling the root cause of things, which in his case and in many people’s case, is poor nutrition in the sense that we eat way too much excess like we have an excessive carbohydrate consumption culture and we are we exercise way too little. And I think we’re like, very lost in general when it comes to food and nutrition, and I’m happy to talk about that as we go. But that’s what Mary was in those circumstances where it was born. So at the time, we were still in the Bay Area, building the first version of very to our closest community and very basically was our a tool that we built for ourselves first. We wanted to better understand the correlation between glucose and our lifestyle habits at the time. The sensor, like the technology in regards of the application of applications available, was very poor. There wasn’t really any tool to for for for a non diabetic, first of all, to get an access to the sensor.

But second of all, to to be able to. Link things like food on like ingredient level to your glucose responses or things like exercise or sleep to your glucose levels, right? So that was the first thing that we built very for to solve. But I think there has expanded quite a lot from that. But but still, it’s it’s still very much like the same problem that we’re trying to solve and the very same thing that we’re trying to help the world understand, which is that we very much believe that we need to. We need to improve our health and we need to improve our health by looking at the root cause of things and nutrition as a whole is one of the biggest root causes that is, well, nutrition itself is one of the one of the biggest reasons, but one of the biggest things that we got wrong and we’ve been grossly simplified, simplifying the way that we look at nutrition. So very, really helps people to improve their health by by helping them understand the right and the wrong foods for their bodies taking into consideration as well the whole context of where you are consuming that given food. So things like exercise and sleep and whatnot.

Yeah, yeah. I think it’s super interesting and I couldn’t agree more with what you said about about nutrition. And my belief is that as a human race, well, in the western world, we have lost the ability to understand just how important food and nutrition is and how it’s fundamental to our long term health and longevity, essentially. And it’s interesting when you start to talk to people about that because it’s almost like I find that it’s almost like people don’t want to believe it because it’s like it’s food. It’s too simple, right? How how can food possibly help us help, you know, for our health? And I always like to use the analogy of a of a car, and it’s like you wouldn’t put diesel in a petrol car, but it’s effectively what we’re doing right now in the western world. With our highly processed foods, our very carb rich diet, we’re effectively putting diesel in our bodies, right? And I think, you know, the toll that you’ve developed is super, super interesting. So before we go off down down the road of how very monitors our blood glucose and stuff, why wanted to dig into is is really for the audience. More than anything is to kind of get the basic fundamentals and understanding of blood glucose sugar because the general message that’s fed out is that sugar is bad. Avoid sugar, right? But but and that’s right to a point. But but the body needs all of the bad stuff that we get it. Give it, maybe just not in the forms we give it or in the quantities we give it, right? So it’d be good for the audience to understand the importance of the food and how it relates to sugars and blood glucose.

Yeah, absolutely. So. Well, if we start with like metabolism one on one. Yeah, right. You know, glucose is the main energy source for the modern human right, so the modern human mainly runs on glucose. Basically, most likely, like the biggest contributor to that is agriculture. Right? Most of our energy production comes from from from from from carbohydrates, the source of carbohydrates and proteins. So carbohydrates and proteins are basically in the body. They are basically put into these these glucose molecules and these these are then transferred to different to different like muscles and different parts of parts of our bodies, which then turn into energy production in that given place. It can be stored. It can be can be used immediately. Yeah. And then of course, obviously we as well like have fats, fats as well fats that are as well used in the human body as energy, as an energy source. So why glucose? Well, this is this is the this is the thing. So as I said, like modern human runs on glucose, and right now we have these two different systems in the human body, one that is able to form from true fat production form energy and one that uses mainly only glucose glucose molecules to produce energy. Right. So right now? Well, there isn’t like there isn’t necessarily like this should be 50 50.

 

But right now, like 90 to 10 is a bit like, yeah, over kind of like ruining the engine. So to say, yeah, so right now, the modern human is basically constantly causing this elevation in our glucose levels with eating the foods that we are eating, right? And this this is a problem because when you constantly rule that same engine, the engine gets worn out, it gets worn out quicker than it should be at got get worn out, right? So what happens is that? You constantly elevate your glucose levels, which means that insulin levels have to follow. Insulin is then an hormone that has two different functions well, multiple, but two are significant here. Yeah. One is to get glucose levels when glucose levels go up, get glucose levels back to homeostasis that is considered like a normal, like a steady state, a normal state. Another one is to it. It promotes as well fat storage. So this is what turns out to be a significant issue in the modern society. When in the modern human, when these glucose levels are constantly elevated, our insulin levels have to follow. And when our insulin levels have to follow constantly because we eat three to five times a day high excessive amount of carbohydrates, we are insulin levels are constantly elevated, right, which then promotes fat storage in the human body, right? And this is the this is what is called.

The formulation of insulin resistance. Right, so what starts happening is that when our insulin levels are constantly going up, our body becomes dampened to the insulin and can’t anymore take it in. So what starts happening is that the insulin levels are up promoting fat storage in the body, even though you would be maybe even eating minus calories. Yeah, you’re you’re you’re you’re promoting this fat storage in in your body. And the problem starts when insulin can’t anymore help that glucose or ATP, that glucose is converted to enter different cells, different cells in our body. Yeah. For example, our brain type to try to treat Alzheimer’s is called type two diabetes. This is because wow lack of. Energy able to able to reach your brain essentially, right? So your your brain is insulin resistant. Wow. It becomes insulin resistance. So insulin resistance is really like applicable to a lot of these different things. There’s different like dysfunctions, non-communicable lifestyle related diseases. Yeah, actually. So. So this is this is why glucose monitoring is so important is really important for us to understand. When we give a certain feel to our body, you know, there was that fly closer to diesel or gasoline, you know? Yeah, we need to know the how, how close to gasoline that is right.

Assuming we’re where we are in like a gasoline car. So we need to understand that. And by monitoring your glucose levels, testing out different foods, just like living your regular life, we’re able to kind of like show you. Yeah, show you how you’re reacting to different, different, different meals and as well. Not just that, but take as well into consideration things like sleep and exercise and under the influence of street, a lack of sleep or lack of exercise. We can as well help you see that these things change, and I’m happy to talk about some of these things that we’ve seen some of the latest things on the science side of of sleep, how sleep and exercise is actually linked to glucose responses. But that is that is why monitoring and measuring glucose is so, so relevant and so important. Because, yeah, most of the most of the modern society is somewhat at some level insulin resistant. Yeah. And we have a huge work to become more and more insulin sensitive like, you know, going forward. Yeah, to be precise, that number of insulin resistance is actually estimated in the US being around 50 percent. Wow. The adult population? It is.

Yeah, I mean, I saw some stats recently that globally we now have over four hundred and fifty million people or type two diabetes and three hundred and fifty million or pre-diabetic, so their insulin keeps spiking outside of its normal levels, which is that’s just scary. Almost a billion people, right? If we want to round it up, which is a large percentage of the population. But so in terms of I mean, that was that was a great explanation

In regards of in regards of the the pre-diabetic people. There is an interesting, interesting stuff as well that. Most, most people like me, interesting statistics in the sense that most people don’t know that their instrument. Instrument, sorry that they are pre-diabetic. Right. So most people live without knowing that. And that’s scary.

Yeah, and that was actually that’s a lead onto the next question I was going to ask you because obviously having this very carb rich, heavy diet that we have and eating as regular as we do and what generally are the symptoms? Because I think a lot of people have the symptoms and they’re just not aware because they’re not introspective enough. So generally when we’re doing this, we’re spiking insulin and then the insulin dips. What are the general feelings or or kind of reactions that people have to kind of continually doing this with their glucose?

Yeah, that’s that’s a great question. So something I think when you when you think about health, I think it’s always like a short term mid-term and a long term impact that you’re causing causing your body and with with the with with kind of like the kind of the kind of how we how we eat and how we. What’s are like food behavior like in the modern times, I think that. The the short term impact as things like. A lot of people see. Cravings, so like having a. Huge amount, like huge amount of cravings in the sense that they can’t really like control their eating. I think that resonates with a lot of people. Imagine or think about think about when you have like something that is like very carb heavy, say, for example, like some simple noodles. And after that, you have like a I don’t know, like a. You have simple noodles and orange juice. Yeah. And after that, you do like some kind of a dessert with, say, I don’t know, like candy or stuff like that. Yeah, with very like low fat. You’ll be hungry pretty quickly after that. And the interesting thing about that is that you can actually see a pattern in your glucose levels. So very often you see a very sharp spike. And after that, you see like you see a dip in your glucose. After that, there was actually a study done in King’s College. I think predict to where they looked at how do you how our food cravings present in in how our glucose behaves and those postprandial glucose crashes that they are called by basically times where we start secreting. We start secreting like hunger producing hormones, so our body is like our glucose is low. Give us more. Yeah, because that’s the thing, you know, when our when our glucose is low, our body is basically signaling us that get it back to homeostasis.

Yeah, yeah. And then and then there’s the other element to that as well, isn’t there, particularly with high sugary carb rich foods is that is the like the dopamine and serotonin that all gets kicked off as well, isn’t it? It’s like the reward centers of the brain. It’s like, that smells good, that looks good, that tastes good. I want more of it, right? Because that makes me feel good for that small period of time. So, yeah, I think that that’s a really interesting side of it as well. So, yeah, I mean.

Sorry. Sorry, sorry. Go for it. Darren, I wanted to. I wanted to add there, since you asked because there are so many more, more other things as well. One other thing that I think a lot of people struggle with is brain fog. Yes. Yeah. Like after lunch, brain fog, right? Because a lot of people especially do like long fasts or eat like very small breakfast. And then they have a huge amount of food, you know, during one of the like the periods that you should be the most amped. And they all then see this kind of like a crash in energy levels after having like a huge carb heavy lunch. So that is as well something that can be kind of be somewhat contributed, contributed to glucose levels really changing rapidly. So that’s as well something that in short term, I think a lot of people, a lot of people, those are things that a lot of people see and experience. Yeah, and like more and more like, you know, medium, medium or long term, then of course, you know, the level of like insulin resistance just kind of growing in your body because it’s not like a state of like it’s on or it’s off, it’s a gradient and you’re constantly working well. Hopefully you’re working yourself on the on the better side of that gradient. But unfortunately, right now, how we eat, how humans eat, where we’re kind of like pushing ourselves to the other extreme side of that quicker and quicker. And that is then causing us trouble like issues like like obesity, right? Like having like gaining weight. But. After that, you know, things like things like even even like Alzheimer’s, to some some extent, cancer can be a contributor. Type two diabetes obviously can be contributed by a lot of fatty liver disease, like a lot of different problems are so, so interconnected with with with with with internal resistance, even infertility.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, insulin resistance is a huge issue. And you know, there’s there’s many different areas which kind of contribute to that. And I think what’s interesting you mentioned there is about obesity, and that is I still feel and I may be incorrect in saying this, but there’s this general misconception that obesity is caused by overeating. I don’t believe it is. I think it’s caused by consuming the wrong types of foods, the highly processed foods and the carb rich, heavy foods that we’ve spoken about. And I think that’s why what you guys are doing at very I think it’s so interesting because, you know, this sounds a bit of a clich√© and I’ve been ridiculed for saying this before, but we are all individuals, right? And and there isn’t no one size fits all. You know, in terms of how your body reacts and copes with certain foods that we give it. And obviously, I’ve got one of your your senses on. And like I said to you before we started recording, I’ve become a bit obsessed with it and scanning myself after I’ve trained off. I’ve had a coffee, you know, all these kinds of experiments. But going on so for the listeners in, can we just kind of start to delve into, you know, why continual blood glucose monitoring is important and relevant because it’s been around for ages, right? Type one diabetic. So had these things, like you said, for years and years and years. But it’s why do you think it’s becoming more mainstream now?

That’s a that’s a that’s a great question, I think that I think one is like more of like a technical technological question. Yeah. Which is that they’ve been around for ages, but just recently. We’ve been able to bring the data using NFC technology to your mobile phone, so this is basically near field communication, so you paying with Apple Pay or with with Google’s Google Pay equivalent to two Apple Pay on the store uses NFC technology. So very the sensor we use that is an Abbott Freestyle Libre sensor. The Abbott sensor is read by that NFC protocol, right? So that was that became available very recently. So that is why, like one reason why we at very are able to do what we are doing to read the sensor and get the sensor to your mobile device. Before that, the sensor technology data exists, but there was a different reader to do that. But in order for us to push this for people like yourself who you know, we are trying to help understand, how are the foods that you’re eating contributing to your metabolic health? Yeah, it’s a bit of a two friction less friction. It has to friction, much friction, the kind of product that you would have to have a separate reader to read the sensor and carried out around so. So I think that’s that’s one of the one of the reasons why this is possible and why this is something that is so relevant right now. But then in addition to that, it’s I think things have just got worse very, very quickly.

I think that there’s like this overall like awareness of health where I think like a lot of people. Have become very health aware and health conscious where I think that our. Are kind of like trust towards. While a lot of industries, but but but unfortunately as well, like the health industry. Yeah. You know, kind of like lowering. And we feel responsible of pay like no one is going to take care of me. I will. I will. I might as well take care of myself. Yeah, I think that we’re seeing this in the in people using that, like Apple Watch, we’re seeing people using or people are really, really curious and conscious about their own health. And it’s about time that we start tackling one of the biggest things in the health realm, which is what you put into your mouth. Because what you put into your mouth, what converts into you, you know, that’s literally food is turned into new cells or not like is powered by that energy, right? So we need to be we need to become. And I’m happy that we are in the stage where we are becoming more and more aware of what we more and more aware of. What we what we what we eat, right? But it’s just starting to become such a huge problem or it’s starting to manifest where we are seeing that we’ve we’ve done this like very much wrong. You know, there is an interesting, interesting like a big study in the space conducted in University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, right, where they showed that eighty eight percent of the U.S. population can be considered metabolically unhealthy. And this is two hundred and eighty eight million people in the United States alone, right? Yeah. So. You know, obesity levels as well, the same thing, it’s I think it’s in America, there is twenty seven seventy four percent of the people are overweight or obese. Mm hmm. And in China, it’s 50 percent in India is 40 percent right now. And the numbers are just staggering as well. What then like happens on the on the kind of like the the the worst possible outcome where we’ve not been able to really like tackle these things at an earlier stage where where a lot of people actually by like looking at statistics like every two seconds, someone in the world is diagnosed with diabetes every two seconds. That’s crazy. Imagine that. So it’s just I think we’ve like grossly been looking at this from a really like simple point of view where we’ve been looking at. Let’s treat that treat the symptom and not let’s not really look at the cause. Yeah, and that’s what Varie is focused on, mainly looking at the cause and really trying to help people form those good habits by this, you know, like by a combination of different things. It’s just like seeing your own data and us providing you the insights when we have a lot of that data, when we then can start giving you recommendations and insights of like how and what kind of food choices should you make in your day to day life?

 

Yeah, yeah. I think it’s so key that you said that around our approach to health. And you know, I think that particularly here in the UK, we definitely follow the model that it’s it’s our health service that’s responsible for our health and that, you know, health is something that you fix. Health is not something you fix. Health is something that’s every day, right? It’s something that really should be intrinsic as part of you as to, you know, making that conscious, making those conscious decisions as to how you’re going to manage your health on a daily basis. Because the kind of the net result of this is that once you lose your health in large majority of the cases, that’s not coming back right. You know, it’s very extreme. I think the biggest exception to the rule is what we’ve been talking about here today, and that’s type two. We all know that type two diabetes is without question lifestyle. A lifestyle illness is based on the decisions and choices that you’ve made around food. And I think what’s really cool, like you said with very and the app is very intuitive. By the way, you know, it’s really it kind of I don’t know whether you would agree with this, but it kind of almost is a bit of gamification in there.

 

I mean, I’ve only been using it for like the last three days and it’s like, right, I can scan what I’m going to put my meals in and it gives me little time stamps as to what I’ve had and when it gives me cool little icons on this. So I know I have a spike then and I had a coffee or I got up and I could see that my insulin started to raise. And I know personally that’s cortisol kicking in when you first wake up in the morning. So that creates an insulin response. And it’s just it’s I think it then becomes and I think this is the key for the adoption of it is the gamification of it. It’s almost like you want to continue looking and and then it’s like, OK, so what can I now do to kind of make this more consistent in terms of my blood sugar levels? So for the listeners that maybe haven’t come across the app and stuff, can we dig into how the apps are constructed and all that kind of stuff?

 

Yeah, absolutely. I can actually talk a bit about the sensor as well because most likely, not a lot of people have even like come across the sensor. But the sensor is a wearable sensor that sticks in the back of your arm for two to two weeks at a time. So it’s very easy to apply five, five, five minutes. I would say maybe first on 10, but the next time is like three to five minutes. You can apply the sensor easily at very. You can get access to the sensor on our website. So how the how the product actually works or we use we are a subscription, subscription based based company. So we basically ship you to our one sensor a month or that optionally a quarter as well. Yeah, and give you access to these sensors. And with with with the sensor itself, the sensor reads your glucose levels from interstitial fluid, so it’s minimally invasive. It has a like a minimally invasive filament that basically has a natural reaction in the in the end of the filament and every single every five minutes reads your glucose levels and send it, send it to your mobile phone during a scan. So when you scan the sensor, you placed the mobile phone on top of the sensor. It gives you eight hours of past data, so you don’t have to be scanning constantly to get data. But you can scan like a minimum. You can scan three times a day. Yeah, and that’s the glucose part.

So glucose is then. Translated to this mobile device and the mobile device in the very app, we are a you’re able to basically see your glucose levels in real time, see how in real time you are reacting to different things. So a bit of a like ad hoc things, things like meetings and the stressful meetings have a cortisol spike. You’ll see a spike. Things like, you know, like sleep and exercise and the rest of the stuff you’re able to kind of like, correlate those things with the data. But the the really the gist comes from adding different meals. So in the app, we basically provide you ways of like adding very frictionless sleep meals of what you’re eating. So we’re taking a photo, you can you can take a photo of your meal. And and with with with that photo, you can say that photo. Add like some sort of something to recognize that given your meal, it reads automatically different tags. So it’s automatically interpreted as if you’re having a pasta polonius or pasta meatball pasta. It populates those tags. It says pasta and meatballs. Yeah. And through those, then when you say that, say that you can you can then like, explore how you’re reacting to different forms of carbohydrates. For example, you can compare things like pasta and rice and the rest of the rest of the stuff, right? In addition to that, the app has tons of content, so we’ve created tons of content to the app that basically helps users understand things to look out for things to understand about metabolic health space.

Obviously, we populate content as well on our website. It’s not, it’s it’s a new new beginnings. For a lot of people. Metabolic health is a very new term. A lot of people don’t have a clue what that means. So we really like try to provide people insights and content and even like in sometimes contextual content. So when something happens, say, for example, a spike, we send you a message, Hey, you just had your first spike reflect on what happened and so on, right? And very is the application itself talks with Apple Health. What I mean, what I mean by talks is that if you have an Apple Watch or an aura, you can basically import your your your exercise and activity and sleep data to the app and in the app, then in different meals, we as well like take those things into consideration. So we have a feature that is called lifestyle levers and lifestyle levers stands for understanding the context that you’re even eating a given meal. So, for example, eating eating again, I’ll use the same example spaghetti polonius. So spaghetti meatballs eating that when you’ve slept three hours versus when you’ve slept 10 hours might have a pretty significant difference on how your glucose response responds to. So we try and give users the insights of, Hey, now you slept really poorly, you know, and that’s why you’re reacting like this. So, you know, reflect take something back from this when you’re sleep.

When you don’t sleep that much, you should most likely go for something that is a bit more metabolically healthier and metabolically friendly, friendlier, so to say to to to you. And then there is a very simple every single meal is scored from one to 10. Right. So we try and help users understand without understanding how the graphs, moves and so on and so forth. We try and help the users understand every single meal is scored from one to 10. This is 10. This is four. This is six. Just to kind of like rank in their minds of like, what should I be going after and what I shouldn’t necessarily be going after that much. And. And then still worthwhile mentioning there is one simple score that we call the Metabolic Flow Score, yeah, which is a score that throughout the day changes based on air glucose patterns. So when you do, you start up your start the morning strong know you have a you have you have an oatmeal with peanut butter like on the on the side and with full fat milk. You know, you have that. You have that meal, you have a steady note, no spike. You do sushi for lunch, which is actually like our worst performing tag ever in the history of like all of our data you have, you have sushi for lunch and you have a huge spike. You know you will crash from your morning was like a 90.

This score is from zero to one hundred. Your score is a ninety before the sushi and after the sushi. Then you start seeing like very unstable glucose levels, so your score drops down to 60. For example, right? So here, you know, it’s like 90 to 60. We want you to finish strong at the end of the day to 90. Yeah, so we we then we kind of like try and push you to make those better decisions than on your next meals or do do a workout or something, something that stabilizes your glucose levels. Because the key of this whole space and the key in in in a person that is that is healthy. And doesn’t yet have diabetes type two diabetes and isn’t like yet like two insulin resistance, why I say two is that all of us are insulin resistant to some. Like it’s like somewhat, but it’s it’s it’s a scale, so someone that is healthy. The core metric to go after is not necessarily like how high your glucose levels like absolutely are. That is as well, like, very important, but especially with tools like the continuous glucose monitor, it’s about how stable your glucose levels are like over time. So understanding the trends over your glucose levels throughout throughout day is going to be really key because that is selling a lot about your daily choices and how those daily choices are then contributing to on a longer like time scale, how high your glucose levels then go up. Or low?

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s super interesting, right? You know, just to to make it really simple. So for example, last night I had salmon, some vegetables and sweet potato, and I don’t think I’ve ever noticed this before, but I scam myself afterwards and I had a huge spike. And the only thing that I can relate that to is the sweet potato, right? But we are told that sweet potato is good. It’s carbohydrates. It’s, you know, complex carbohydrate so that it doesn’t spike us. But for me, I had a huge spot now. That could mean that could also be because like two hours before I’d been in a sauna. So there’s there’s so many different factors in there, which is what I like about how you guys have brought it all together because we’re talking here today about food and obviously metabolic health. But it’s not just food. Like you said as well, could be a stressful meeting, right? Could be poor night’s sleep, the kind of spikes. So kind of bringing that all together, it’s very much giving you a holistic view of your health. And like I said, you know, you can make these little changes to kind of flatten out because that’s ultimately where we’re trying to get to, isn’t it? We’re trying to flatten that curve, right? We’re trying to keep that as stable as we can. But yeah, no, I think it’s it’s fascinating stuff. So so for people that haven’t kind of tried it before and feel like trying it, what’s the best place for them to go to kind of check it out?

Yeah. Well, our our our website is a good, good place to be the place to obviously look into look into it as well. We have a newsletter like. Email list as well. If you kind of like wants to learn a bit more about it, you can join that on the website. I think I think that should be should be still up, but very Devco, is that you? And you know, in our blog, obviously, there’s quite a lot of content there for you to kind of like understand more and more about about this space. One place as well that I that I suggest you joining is our community. So we have a two point five thousand people, strong community of people that are using the product and talking about it. And that’s the basis that’s that’s space is open. So in our website, you’ll find community, but you can join some of the channels and see some of the discussions that the users are having. So there’s a lot of interesting, interesting, cool stuff there and a lot of. Groups even doing certain like experiments together and looking at they’re looking at their cross-referencing, their data and so on, so amazing, amazing people on on that, on that channel.

Yeah, no, that’s great. Yeah. Check out Very.co.uk and then yeah, one thing that I wanted to say, actually, which you mentioned earlier on and that was the data that you provide in the app, I think that’s really important because, you know, just for example, I was standing waiting for an appointment today, and I can’t remember what came up on the app now. But then I just clicked into more detail and it’s really clear, precise and succinct information. I’m not a medical trained expert, but it’s really easy to understand. It’s like, Oh, that happened. And this is the reason, right? And I think you’ve also got on the home page of the app. When you first sign up, you’ve got some like recommended reading and they’re really small, short articles, which I think, yeah, a really valuable. So I would recommend people listening, go out and check Very.co.uk and sign up. Just get yourself a sensor and you will be truly fascinated and look at the end of the day. If you’re listening to this, you’re going to be concerned about your health. And this is one of the key factors to ensure, you know, long term health and longevity.

Absolutely.

So, Anthony, thank you very much for joining me on the podcast today, I really appreciate it. What are your socials, by the way, is very got socials that we can go and check out as well.

Yeah, yeah. We are at Instagram at at very stable. So at very stable Twitter as well as very stable. The same. And then the URL varied article.

Perfect. All right. Well, thank you very much for joining me on the podcast today, and I look forward to catching up with you again soon.

Thanks so much and happy. I’m glad that you’ve liked. You’ve liked the concept. You’ve liked the product. You like the app? Thank you a lot for for all of the for having me and for all of the nice feedback.

No worries. Yeah, yeah. So I look forward to seeing how the product develops, actually.

Absolutely, absolutely. We’re just getting started. Yeah. Cool.

Awesome. 

Thanks for listening to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please hit subscribe. And I would really appreciate it if you can leave a review on iTunes or the things mentioned in the episode will be in the show notes and a full transcription is over at fitterhealthierdad.com