00:59 – Angela’s journey from corporate law to nutrition and health
03:17 – DNA testing helps optimize our genetic expression
06:00 – One reason why diets don’t always produce the same result
08:23 – Coaching people to understand the data
12:23 – You can’t ‘out train’ a bad diet
20:03 – Understand your objectives and your body
25:16 – It’s a modern world but you can ‘crowd out’ the bad stuff
26:46 – Key recommendations for DNA testing and nutrition
31:30 – Misdiagnosed gluten intolerance
32:35 – What to do if you’re sitting too much
Welcome to the Fitter Healthier Dad podcast where you can learn how to improve your diet, lose fat and get fitter in a sustainable and fun way without spending hours in the gym. Here is your host, Darren Kirby.
Darren: This is season one, episode nine of the Fitter Healthier Dad podcast. Today we’re going to be talking about DNA testing, which is now very popular in the health and fitness space. DNA testing information gives us a really good insight into how our bodies work. We can then use this information to improve our health and fitness results. Today’s guest is Angela Foster who is a health and performance coach and founder of My DNA Edge. Hi, Angela, how are you?
Angela: I’m very well, thanks, Darren. Thanks so much for having me on the show.
Darren: Pleasure, absolutely. It’s great to have you come on. Everything DNA. Before we kind of get into the depths of DNA testing, Angela, can you give us a bit of background on yourself?
Angela: Sure. I started in a completely different area. I was a corporate lawyer and had been working very hard, was trying to combine that very busy lifestyle with a young family, and pretty much reached burnout and ended up in hospital with pneumonia quite suddenly, fighting for my life. That kind of was a landmark change for me. When I got better and left hospital, I kind of felt so grateful to be alive that that’s when I started researching ‘How can we be healthy and stay healthy?’ and really looking into longevity.
That’s when I then completely changed career and trained as a nutritionist and a holistic health coach and got into genetic testing because I knew that I had a very strong family history of heart disease and diabetes in the family. Having kind of had a run in with my health, I was keen to explore whether our genes were our destiny. As you know, they’re not and actually we can influence the way that our genes behave to a great extent. Only around 5% of diseases that we suffer are actually down to one gene, for example, that causes them.
Now, I founded My DNA Edge basically to help people get lean and healthy and full of energy and vitality and live, not just longevity in terms of living longer, but what I call the state of juvenescence, which is that age of youthfulness for life.
Darren: Angela, that’s really useful and I think this whole emergence of genetic testing and DNA testing in the world of what’s called kind of ‘meditech’ is so interesting. Because for decades we’ve been using external factors of maybe losing weight or gaining muscle or getting fitter, to determine whether or not we’re healthy. But actually, what goes on inside, I don’t think we’ve ever been in a period where we’ve been able to really delve in that deep. Obviously, DNA testing is just one element in that, so I think it’s so valuable. In terms of when we term the phrase ‘DNA testing,’ what actually does that mean?
Angela: What we’re looking at is most people have heard of genes and genes are basically segments of DNA. We produce various proteins and enzymes in our body that are the building blocks for life and what we’re looking at is small variations in that genetic blueprint that may affect us in one way. Now, specifically here, we tend to test genes that have been well studied, that we know we can positively influence through our nutrition or lifestyle, or exercise or sleep or stress. I think what’s different about My DNA Edge to many of the testing companies out there, is that we’re looking to optimize our genetic expression. We do DNA testing, as I’ve mentioned, to see what those snips are, but we’re also looking at the overall holistic package of making sure that you’re getting optimal expression. There’s so many factors that affect that: from our sleep, our food, our stress levels, even our thoughts are affecting the expression of our genes moment to moment.
Specifically, when we’re testing, it’s a very simple saliva test, where we look at certain panels to see what the underlying sensitivities of that particular client is. For example, it’s very useful in discovering people’s tolerance and processing of carbohydrates and fats. I use this a lot in people that are struggling with weight loss or fat loss more particularly and want to understand what is the best diet for them. Because there is no one size fits all in terms of diet and this concept of personalized nutrition is now really emerging. Not just with DNA, but also looking at people’s gut bacteria, looking at their food intolerances and I think it’s about looking at that package together. That’s what we do, is put together coaching programmes that basically address all of those issues for optimal health.
Darren: I think that’s really interesting. I think the point that you picked up on there is that there is no one size fits all. Again, people tend to pick up on the latest diet that is out there because some people have got results; it could be a celebrity or could be people they know. The big one that I’m aware of at the moment is ketogenic diet: everybody wants to eat high fat, low carbs, all the rest of it. But if your body type is not that way and your body type needs carbs, then it’s not going to work for you, is it? It’s very interesting that we can now get this kind of magnifying glass out and we can look inside to see actually what is right for us.
Angela: Absolutely. And I think you mention a very good point there because, for example, the ketogenic diet, some people are getting amazing results but we don’t necessarily know the long-term health repercussions of this. They may be seeing physical results in terms of fat loss. There are plenty of people that I see that actually don’t get any results with it. But generally speaking, if you’re doing a keto diet properly, then you’re looking at a 70% fat with around 5% of net carbs and about 25% protein. In that scenario, and you’ve probably seen this online in the communities yourself, people are consuming around 20-30% often of saturated fats.
What we know is that depending on variants that you have, there’s a specific gene known as the APOE gene. You may actually be processing fats and cholesterol in a different way, which heightens your risk for things like Alzheimer’s. In that section of the population, for example, consuming more than five to 10% of your calories from saturated fats would be adverse, potentially. It’s quite a serious thing, I think. For anyone, before they really embark on this concept of following a particular nutrition plan, it’s about personalizing that nutrition. As you say, we now in an affordable way have this technology available to enable people to do that.
Darren: Definitely. I think it’s very, very important and actually, I think the other side of it as well is where people have tried things, it’s not worked and they failed and that frustration builds and they could get the misconception that ‘this kind of diet thing or healthy eating thing doesn’t work for me.’ No, what you’ve actually tried, that process that you’ve tried, doesn’t work for your body type. Now you can actually get the looking glass out and find out what does work, so I think that’s really important.
Obviously, we’ve discussed about what the DNA testing is, genetic testing, so specifically around diet and specifically around fat loss, what would the testing tell us? Or does the test actually need to be interpreted by someone like yourself? Can we just get a test, take the results and then go and implement it to get the fat loss that we want or the weight loss that we want or the physique? How can it help us?
Angela: That’s an interesting question. There are some DNA testing companies out there that do just sell tests online. At My DNA Edge, that’s not something we do because what I found through experience is that people find those reports very difficult to use and actually they may get an overview, but they don’t know how to put them into practice. Then it just becomes ‘shelf help.’
It’s about coaching people to really understand the data because there’s a lot in there that they can use. For example, if we take your example of somebody who’s struggling with fat loss or maybe they’ve tried a few different diets, it may be that they’re not getting their macronutrients right, as you’ve mentioned, so they may not be having the right proportion of protein, carbs and fats, but then it may also be down to the fact that perhaps they’ve got very high levels of inflammation in the body. We know that inflammation will inhibit fat loss. Now, by looking at specific parts of their genetics, we can see whether their inflammation levels are likely to be driven up higher. If they are, we can take steps nutritionally and lifestyle wise to actually lower inflammation. There’s that behind-the-scenes data that we can get from their genetics as well.
We can also see how well they are detoxifying as a function of their genetics and then introduce foods that can aid in that process. Because the main things that really keep us healthy or inhibit health, the two biggest things to get right, is inflammation and blood sugar balance. What we know is, is that if our blood sugar is high, then insulin is high and that foments the body to store fat. If inflammation is high, that will also in turn cause that and also chronic diseases to develop over time, such as heart disease, diabetes. And inflammation can be raised by a number of different factors: that can be through stress, it can be through toxic overload, through heavy metals, it can be through food intolerances.
What we do is we use the DNA test as the underlying test to understand the blueprint for that client and then where we might need to look further. We combine it with questionnaires, so the laboratory has questionnaires alongside it as part of their algorithm because it may be that you, for example, find out that you do have a higher risk for something like celiac disease or gluten sensitivity. If your questionnaires are not showing that that’s being expressed, then that wouldn’t necessarily be the go-to point for you. It might be that other things are coming up. We coach clients through that process over a number of weeks so that they can get the end results.
Darren: I think that’s really key. We were talking before we started recording that the DNA testing is one element and it will give you some results. But actually, you do need someone like yourself, who understands the real depths of genetics and how it works to interpret it into a meaningful way that you can implement it. I quite like the phrase that you use there. Was it shelf health? Where you get your results and you stick them on the shelf because you don’t really understand what you need to do with them. I think that’s really key.
Okay. So, we are talking about the various different ways that we can optimize our diet and our fitness based on the results, but at a higher level, prior to doing any kind of DNA testing, what would you say is the basics of a well-balanced diet? Because all too often I see, specifically with men, and this actually was me years ago, that by doing exercise, by doing fitness, the perception is, ‘Well, I’ve done that. Because I’ve done that fitness, I can just eat what I like.’ But I realized that you can’t train out a bad diet. What would you say is the basics of a balanced diet?
Angela: You’re absolutely right: you can’t out train a bad diet. I think what happens, and often with guys, this is the case in particular, is that you get away with it in your 20s because your metabolic rate is that much higher. Then as you get older and, you know, testosterone can start to be lowered. You’re getting disrupted nights’ sleep and so you’re not producing as much growth hormone, you’re losing muscle mass–I think it’s around 1% a year–and that’s dramatically affecting metabolism. All these things come and play a part and people find that all of a sudden now, they just need to like look at something and they’re putting on weight, particularly around the abdominal area. There’s definitely things you can do with diet which I’ll go through those first and then there’s some lifestyle things that are important as well.
In terms of diet, the biggest thing, as we’ve already touched on is to make sure that you are keeping your blood glucose stable. There’s a few ways to do this. I always recommend that people have an overnight fast of a minimum 12 hours. In an ideal world, and this won’t be easy for everyone, if they’re working late and long hours, but try to have three hours between your evening meal and going to bed. So that what you’re doing is you’re not loading up on calories before bed that your body doesn’t really need to use and it will disrupt your sleep when it should be repairing. And we know the benefits of intermittent fasting in that process. What that means is, if you’ve had that 12-hour fast, then you’re going to wake up in the morning, not in ketosis, but moving towards a more fat burning basis, because you will have used up a lot of the glycogen in your liver.
I then recommend that people will move around first thing before they really eat or drink anything. Hydrate, definitely with water, but kind of nothing more. That can be anything from gentle stretching to walking or doing some light exercise. Then I would break that fast with a meal that contains protein and fats. I think that’s where people’s biggest fall down is: is that they have a carbohydrate-based breakfast. What that does is it then just switches the body straight back into a sugar burning mode and it’s very hard over the day then to resist snacking or going for another carbohydrate-based lunch because your blood sugar levels are going up and up.
People can gain an idea of how sensitive they are to carbs by journaling. The first thing I get my clients to do is actually to spend a week writing down what they’ve eaten and how they feel 30 minutes afterwards and two hours afterwards. This is not so much here… It helps with food intolerances, but it’s also to kind of get an idea of how is that food affecting your performance? A common thing I’ll see is that a lot of people will describe the fact that they get brain fog or tiredness in the afternoon. Some of that is down to our circadian clock, this kind of postprandial dip, but a lot of it is the fact that we’ve maybe consumed extra carbohydrates at lunch and then once our blood sugar goes up and comes back down, we’ve then got food cravings and we’re feeling the effects and we’re tired.
What I like to do and what I practice myself is to go for a much more of a vegetables, protein and fat based breakfast and lunch, and then have some carbohydrates in the evening in terms of whole food carbohydrates, because I think it can really help. Something like sweet potato or some brown rice, or wild rice can really help you to sleep and give you that kind of release of happy hormones and help with that.
Darren: I think that’s really clear. The breakfast thing as well is so, so important and I think you’re absolutely right. If you feast on a breakfast full of carbohydrates, the likelihood is, it spikes your blood sugar that much that once you get to the office or you get to work or whatever, and you sit down, you have this massive crash. From a cognitive, from an alertness function, that kind of makes you not as effective as you perhaps might do, had you had a different type breakfast. I certainly felt that if I’ve had a carbohydrate-based breakfast.
When you talk about a protein and fats type breakfast, give us some examples of what that could contain in terms of from a food perspective.
Angela: Sure. For example, you could have some avocado with say, some lemon juice, Tabasco, chili seeds and maybe even some smoked salmon on top. Avocado is great, healthy fats, good source of Vitamin E. Something that I see a lot of times is that people need way more Vitamin E then they think, when I DNA test them. Any form of eggs is always a good choice but eating the whole egg, so you’ve got the fats with it, not just the egg whites. That can be with spinach and mushroom and an omelette with a bit of cheese or any way you like them really. Some days of course, have like say, a piece of sourdough, which is fermented and better on the gut, with it.
Protein shakes like a vegan protein powder with almond butter, coconut oil, some greens, and maybe some raw cacao powder thrown in for flavour can be a good option. Then sometimes, for example, I’ll have coconut yoghurt. You want to check that with these things, they’ve not got, say, corn flour added in just to thicken it. If you’ve got something like I think it’s Rebel Kitchen- organic. Coconut yoghurt is quite high and fats and you can have that with some berries, which are a lower glycaemic fruit, and some cut pumpkin seeds or chia seeds and some nuts, whole raw almonds. Things like that are going to stabilize your blood sugar over the morning much better.
Darren: Around the food that we buy, is where I think we need to become way, way more conscious about what is in the food that’s been produced. Because even the stuff that we’re talking about here, like some of your almond milk, some of your soy milks, like you’ve mentioned there, coconut yoghurt, you have to look at what’s in the ingredients for those. Because even though we know that a variation of those is healthy, unfortunately, the food producers–to get the shelf life and the longevity and all that kind of stuff–put stuff in there, which either bulks up the product or gives it a longer shelf life. It’s very, very important that people, I think, become way more conscious about what’s in their food.
Angela: Absolutely. Unfortunately, what happens is, as you say, those facts. And people are ‘oh, I mustn’t drink cow’s milk, therefore I’ll go for these milk substitutes.’ But soy is not really designed to be eaten unless it’s fermented and in very small amounts. As you said, in many of them, for example a coconut milk, may contain lots of other ingredients. It might even be mostly rice rather than coconut. Just because it’s got a small amount of coconut, they call it coconut milk. It’s becoming aware of those labels, as you say, but trying to eat foods as much as you can without labels.
Darren: Yeah. I think we may have already touched on this just previously, but what’s your view on the popular diets? I’m talking about things like paleo, about South Beach diet, keto, all this kind of stuff. What’s your view on those with the approach to getting a well-balanced nutritional and to kind of fit this in your daily lives? Are we going back to just follow a balanced diet or do you think they do have a place in the nutrition space?
Angela: I think they do. Some of them do have a place and I think ketosis can work, a ketogenic diet, for some people. As we already touched on, there are gene variants where it wouldn’t be suitable. I think you have to take into account the kind of level of activity that people are doing. People that are sedentary are going to need way less carbohydrates than somebody like yourself who’s very active. I think also, in terms of a true ketogenic diet, a lot of people maybe don’t understand it fully and they’re not following it in the right way and so they’re really limiting the vitamins and minerals that they can get from fruit and veg. I’m not a big advocate of fruit, but vegetables in particular.
I tend to go with what I suppose is a modified version of keto. If you can fill your plate half with non-starchy vegetables and then the other section would be say, a quarter of the plate with protein, good quality source from say, grass fed beef or wild fish or seafood and then some fats alongside it, with maybe a small amount, as we say, once or twice a day of starchy carbs from the whole food variety, you’re pretty much on your way to getting it right. It then just needs adjusting according to your genetics, your lifestyle, your fitness and also what you’re trying to achieve at that point. You’ll know yourself from competing that you need to prioritize training and people will need to adjust their diets during those periods.
Darren: Yeah, and I think, like you said, you have to understand what your objectives are from the outset to pick the balanced diet that you need. As you mentioned, for me, ketogenic just won’t work for me because I know the level of carbohydrates I need, based on the training that I’m doing, I wouldn’t be able to do the distances I did if I just survive completely on a fat-based diet. I do need that level of carbohydrates. But also, if you get somebody who wants to drop a few pounds, or specifically they want to drop weight, then that’s a whole different type of eating kind of process that you want to go through. I’m trying to avoid using the specific diets because I don’t like to (promote) specific diets, but the point I’m trying to make is it’s about understanding what your objective is. Because I think all too often they go for the solution before they understand the objective.
Angela: Yeah, very much so. I think then people hop around between one… I’m not a fan of diets either, as you say, but they hop around between one diet plan and another and they actually end up spending quite a bit of money on it and not getting results.
With keto, for example, we’ve all complained of the keto flu, because as soon as you drop carbohydrates to that extent, then you are going to lose a lot of water. Then that really affects the mineral balance in the body, so if people aren’t replacing that with electrolytes, particularly if they are higher exercisers, then they’re going to feel pretty rough on it. I think it doesn’t take a lot to have a programme designed for you, personalized nutrition, but it’s also important to look at the lifestyle factors and look at the load that’s on you at the same time. Because a lot of people have quite a significant amount of exposure to toxins, which will make their bodies naturally hang on to fat, because that’s where we store them to keep our body safe. For you to lose that fat, those toxins have got to be released back into the body. That’s why we look at the lifestyle, look at stress levels.
If you’ve got constant sustained high cortisol, then over time… Cortisol–the stress hormone– was designed for us to fight or flee. Once cortisol is released, that dumps glucose into the blood so that you can either fight or flee. Now, most people are sitting at their desk really, really highly stressed, so once that glucose comes in, insulin has to rise, basically, to take the sugar out of the blood. And what do we know? That insulin is a fat storage hormone so you get into this cycle. But also, even reducing radiation: we’re around computers a lot, mobile phones, turning your Wi Fi off at night, all of those things are really, really important to your health.
Darren: I agree. I think some of the people listening to this might think that’s crazy, all these toxins we’re talking about and radiation. But you know what? It’s very, very real. We’ve become a very ‘want everything now’ kind of nation or population if you like. We’ve got all these devices that are emitting all these radio waves and then we’ve got all these toxins from just either traveling on the tube, being outside, getting it from food, getting it from packaging, and we just don’t realize how much of it is about. Equally, we don’t realize how much that has an impact on our health, our wellness. We’re kind of taking it a little bit off topic here, but this whole wellness, I call it a wellness circle, is all very relevant to coming back to fat loss and diet and fitness, isn’t it?
Angela: Absolutely, it is. And I think there’s been thousands, I think it’s about 20,000 studies on electromagnetic radiation. And I think there is this concept, particularly with 5G coming, we may be looking at the new smoking. I think it is serious and people aren’t taking it seriously enough, because these things happen over time, over a long period. But you can’t avoid it, right? We live in a modern world but it’s about packing your diet with as much nutrient balance. I always think crowd out rather than take out. If you crowd your diet out where you’re basically crowding out the bad stuff with all the high nutrient-dense food you’re putting in, you’re going to be helping to protect yourself.
Darren: Definitely. I think that’s a really good way of framing it, actually. I’ve not heard that used before but that’s a really good way. The other thing, I think, is clean out your cupboards. Take out all the crap that you don’t need, take out all the crap that is a temptation, and then it’s quite easy to live this balanced kind of healthy lifestyle, because you haven’t got it in the cupboard, you know? Of course, you can go and buy it but the difference is, if it’s not there on hand, then you can’t access it. So yeah, absolutely.
What are the five key kind of actions or recommendations you could recommend that the listeners can take away today to make a positive change and also use DNA testing to support that?
Angela: Specifically, is this positive changes to their diet? To their nutrition? Yeah. The first one I would say is be really, really careful with the fats you consume. We definitely need more fats in our diet than many of us are consuming but we need to be very careful with the ones that we consume. For example, processed vegetable or seed oils are not healthy; they are highly oxidized and often rancid and you’ll find them in supermarkets in plastic bottles, and they can cause significant arterial damage. If you’re looking at protecting yourself from things like heart disease, get the fats right. You want to be having good quality, organic, extra virgin olive oil, some organic coconut oil, grass fed organic butter, avocado oil. But there are certain ones that you can heat and certain ones that you mustn’t heat above certain temperatures because they can be very damaging. That’s part of what we do when we work with clients, is to educate them on that. That would be my first thing because not enough people are talking about fats and the damages that it can do.
The second one would be to make sure that you’re controlling your blood sugar, as we talked about, because we know that that increases insulin and increases inflammation. The third one would be to get an idea of how food makes you feel, because that is the best way to understand, aside from genetic testing, what the right diet for you is and to become super intentional about it. That’s only the week of logging what happens, whether you get brain fog and how you feel.
I would always suggest that you do get a couple of nutrition consults and a DNA test. We can offer that to understand what your carb and fat sensitivity is, how well you detoxify and what your inflammation levels are and how you might need to support yourself nutritionally. It also enables you to find out what kind of vitamins and mineral balances you need for your optimal health to very much protect you. Also to make sure that you are getting the right balance of omega-3 versus omega-6s. These are both functional fats that we need in our diet that we can’t make ourselves and so we have to find them in our food. But many people have them in the wrong balance. For example, omega-6/3 ratio should be around three or four to one. But in the standard American diet, for example, we’re seeing levels as high as 20 to one and that is causing inflammation. Making sure you’re getting enough omega-3 from oily fish, from good quality supplements, and I emphasize good quality because if you take a fish oil that isn’t a good quality one, then you’re possibly going to do more harm than good.
To become aware of any intolerances that you have because these do cause inflammation and they can cause gut permeability which can cause problems. I think if you’re eating a wide variety of fruit and veg and having some fermented foods in there to improve the health of your gut and the bacteria in your gut and the diversity of it, with things like live yoghurt, whether that’s coconut yoghurt or Greek yoghurt, then those would be my top tips.
Darren: I think there are some great tips there. I think particularly around fermented foods; that’s very good for your gut health as well. I have things like sauerkraut and what’s the other one? Not kombucha?
Darren: That’s the fermented drink, isn’t it? What’s the…
Angela: That can be quite high in sugar so for some people that aren’t as active as you, I think sauerkraut is a good one and the live yoghurts even like coconut yoghurt are very good. Apple cider vinegar in a bit of water is very good and also can help to a degree with blood sugar balance. But really even just picking up- if you’re not eating foods that have been heavily sprayed, just by eating a wide variety of plants, you’re going to be getting those bacteria. And being outside, getting in the dirt. Being outside with your kids, your dog, all of that actually is amazing for healthy immunity.
Darren: And that comes on to that kind of whole wellness and mental health and stuff like that. Getting outside, getting fresh air, getting moving and things like that. I think that’s so, so important, which is so simple that we take for granted.
The other thing that you mentioned there is around intolerances. I read a statistic, and I can’t remember the exact statistic, but it was around what’s the intolerance that everybody self-diagnoses? Gluten.
Angela: Gluten intolerance.
Darren: Yeah, our gluten intolerance. But actually, I think it’s about 90% of the people that diagnose it are not gluten intolerant. Obviously, the DNA testing will absolutely tell you whether you are or whether you aren’t.
Angela: It will tell you. Not 100%, but it will definitely tell you your genetic predisposition and when we combine that with the questionnaires, you’re going to have a very strong idea as to whether it affects you and how much you can have. There is obviously celiac disease that in some people it’s an autoimmune disorder and that’s when you can never have gluten. But I would say the vast majority of people can moderate it in small amounts. I think it’s a big factor in brain fog and people can test these things themselves as well. See how you feel after a big pizza compared to a salad. DNA testing does help with that.
Darren: Before we wrap it up, is there anything that I didn’t ask you which you feel I should have and would benefit the listeners?
Angela: I think the only thing I’d add to all of this, because we did get a little bit into lifestyle, is that people assume maybe too readily… You spoke about not being able to outrun a bad diet or out-exercise it but also, I think people have this perception that if they go to the gym once a day, or go for a run, that’s enough to undo a day’s sedentary activity and it isn’t.
Unfortunately, we’re sitting way too much so I encourage people to set a timer on their phone, aim for 10,000 steps minimum a day and get up. If I’m at my desk, I’ll do Pomodoro sessions 25 minutes, and then I’ll swing a kettlebell around for a few minutes or do some jumping jacks. It’s things like that, taking the stairs, parking as far away as you can. Just that ‘all around’ movement is so important. If you’re trying to make yourself more insulin sensitive, then even doing 60 seconds of some exercise before you eat your evening meal can improve that blood sugar regulation by as much as two or three times.
Darren: Absolutely. And also going for a walk after your meal as well.
Angela: Yes. Very much.
Darren: Fantastic, Angela. It’s been great to catch up with you today. How can people connect with you?
Angela: If they’re interested in more on the DNA side, they can go to MyDNAedge.com and also on Instagram @Angelasfoster and on Facebook I’m Angela Foster and Mydnaedge. Then if they’re interested more in the kind of high-performance side of things, they can find me at Angelafosterperformance.com. I have a podcast coming out called High Performance Health.
Darren: Excellent. Well, I’ll be sure to subscribe to that and give you a review. Thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it and I look forward to catching up with you soon.
Angela: Thanks so much for having me on the show.
Darren: Thanks for listening to the Fitter Healthier Dad podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please hit subscribe and I would really appreciate it if you could leave a review on iTunes. All the things mentioned in the episode will be in the show notes and a full transcription is over at Fitterhealthierdad.com