Episode Highlights 

00:00:14 Introductions
00:03:51 Guest Background
00:05:49 Small Change Bring Big Impacts
00:11:31 Initial Goal
00:16:51 Amazing Mental Clarity after Health Diet
00:21:07 Five Things to a Great Start
00:25:25 Right Rest and Relief for more Empowerment
00:30:35 Balance on Food Produce/Intake
00:39:26 Impact on Balanced Diet
00:50:31 The 14 Day Reset Program
00:53:56 Upcoming Exciting Things on Ossa Organic
00:59:02 Catherine’s Amazing  Advice
01:00:51 How to Connect with Ossa Organic


Fitness Guide





Welcome to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast, where you can learn how to improve your diet, lose fat and get fitter in a sustainable and fun way without spending hours in the gym. Here is your host. Darren Kirby.

Darren:  Welcome back to the podcast. Guys, this is the number one podcast for dads in their 40s who want to improve their health and fitness. This is Episode 52. And joining me on today’s show is Catherine Farrant from Ossa Organic. And we’re going to be discussing the huge benefits of adding bone broth into your diet. Five years ago, 

Catherine set up Ossa organic, having discovered the incredible benefits of bone broth whilst pregnant with her first child. It’s made a huge difference to their lives and their health. And since then, Catherine and her family have lived eating mostly paleo and avoiding inflammatory foods, cooking, nourishing and delicious meals for the family. Hi, Catherine. Thanks very much for joining me on the podcast today.

Catherine : Hi, Darren. Thanks for having me.

Darren: No worries. And I’m just obviously in the topical situation that we’re at the moment with coming out of lockdown and Covid. How are you? How’s things? How’s the business?

Catherine : Good, thanks. Yeah, we’ve tried to really make the best of a of a tough situation. Everything is as good as it could be. I leaned quite heavily into the bio hacking during the lockdown time, so trying to kind of optimize the health and mental well-being of the family. The business has taken some knocks, as have most businesses at this time, and again, tried very hard to look at the opportunities and those as opposed to kind of the setbacks. And I think for me, the major takeaway of this time has been sitting down to a set down healthy lunch every day as a family and being able to discuss life has been a massive positive for me.

Darren: Yeah, I think, you know, looking at positives, that is a really dire situation for some people. But I think, you know, it’s very important that we do take the positives out of it. And, you know, just just in the time when we have been able to be around or out and about, you can see that people are way more connected with their with their family. They’re way more connected as as a kind of a a family unit. I mean, I’ve never seen so many families out walking together and just having normal conversations. And that seems really strange to say. But it’s I think we’ve this has been a big wakeup call for people and kind of to reconnect and reconsider how we live really.

Catherine : Absolutely. And it’s exactly kind of the ethos of my business, which I love, which is that tradition, not trend. We have to go back to our roots to understand how to live better. And that is the importance of connectedness and the nuclear family. And we had so lost that I mean, even now with our kids back at school, my husband and I will sit down and share a meal on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday at lunch. And I completely agree with you that connectedness has reappeared. And in many cases, I’ve seen a lot of families have to tackle demons that have been there for many years that just go, you know, swept on the rug because of because of disconnectedness. And so a really powerful time for the nuclear family. And I think it’s in a lot of cases, trauma, divorce and a lot of difficult things have come up. But this situation has forced us to really look at things for what they are. And I think that is the greatest learning.

Darren: Yeah, definitely. One hundred percent. So so for people that haven’t come across, Ossa Organic. And you. Can you give us a bit of background on on you and how you came to launch a business in the first place and why. Bone broth.

Catherine : Sure. Well, I kind of started off when I fell pregnant with my first child. And we all know as as moms and dads, how defining that moment in life is. And for me, it was about how do I nourish my body and this pregnancy in the best way possible to set my husband and I up for parenthood to to kind of the most healthiest, most optimal child. And that’s how I came across bone broth. And at the time, my husband and I were, you know, eating out, partying, all the kind of things you do before you have a child. And we came to this paleo way of life and we changed our diets. And the way in which the both of us changed physically and mentally was unbelievable and was probably about two years after we made that change and learned about bone broth and the effect that it can have on male joints and physique on female fertility, all sorts of things that we realized. 

Actually, he turned to me and he said to me, look, I think there’s I think there’s a business in this. People need to be educated and people need to have traditional Broth available to them, because at the time they only stuck with stock cubes and MSJ and all sorts of additives and extracts and and so that’s kind of how the business was set up. I myself, you know, I’m a mom of soon to be three and very, very into bio hacking, an optimal health and not in a way whereby it excludes anyone else, but in a way whereby I feel comfortable that I know my own body and I know what works. And I know what works for my family. And so the journey of Ossa Organic has really been about inspiring other people to just be able to scan the body and see how well or not well they feel and then be able to be informed, to take action, to heal the gut. And at the end of the day, just live a more optimal life and be a better person. Better spouse, better partner. Better mom. Better dad.

Darren: Yeah. I think I think that’s the way that you’ve just described that. I think that’s really amazing. And I think the thing for me around this is that when we distill it down and when we break it down, we’re talking about, you know, we’re talking about bone broth, something that has been around for decades. And it’s what I love about bio hacking. And this whole kind of nutritional medicine, if you like, is the fact that you can take these really simple products. This really simple thing. And it can have such a profound impact on not just your life, but your children’s life. And you know what nutrition can do for you mentally, physically. You know, there’s so much to it, but it all just starts with a simple change or a simple addition to your diet and a little bit of knowledge. And for me, I think, you know, this is ,it’s not this kind of magic pill, so to speak. It’s like you said, you going back to tradition, we’re going back to our ancestral roots and we’re discovering what they used in order to live healthier lives. And, you know, this might began a little bit over the top, Catherine, but I think we are living in a sick society. And I know we’re talking you know, we’ve got this pandemic at the moment with covid and stuff. But I believe strongly that there’s a real bigger pandemic happening that nobody’s talking about. And, you know, this is diet and nutrition.

Catherine : Absolutely. I agree and I think covid maybe is something that’s highlighted to us how weak our immune systems are and how incapable we are of being resilient at a time where you need to be, you know. And so for me, that is exactly it. Make one small change and build from there in order that you are far more immune, stronger and far more physically kind of adaptable and I think for anyone, especially for the men listening today day when you need to have that ability to be strong and have a very, very strong immune system. And so and also, we’re not saying overhaul everything or buy these expensive pools of stuff. We’re just saying let’s look back to a time where tribes traditionally had very white and very straight teeth, where there was not a lot of, you know, conditions like auto immune disease, psoriasis, IBS, in fact, where a meal was digested so optimally by the body that people didn’t even have bloating and gas. And that was one of the things my husband and I always used to laugh about.

Like on a Saturday night, we’d have a lovely meal and you’d kind of finish your food and you’d be burping and you be like, oh, a sign of a good meal or whatever. We don’t have flatulence and burping in this house anymore. And it’s too funny when after five years, if I eat some what I know doesn’t agree with me, I think she’s I don’t miss those days. So these kind of things that we are conditioned to believe as part of the human condition, alopecia, the thinning of the hair, it’s not at all. It’s an unfortunate side effect of the fact that we are in a chronic state as a human race and that actually for millennia our diet has been so full of chemicals. So genetically modified and so highly processed that we are lacking in the nutrients that we need to actually have thick, luscious hair, to not have rashes and eczema on our skin, and to not be dealing with chronic underlying immune conditions. And I think that we need to believe that we are worthy of not experiencing all that kind of stuff instead of accepting it as the norm.

Darren: Yeah, definitely. And that’s exactly what has happened. I think we have become as a human race, you know, we are accepting all of these issues in diseases that we have. You mentioned bloating, fractures, everything else we’ve accepted as a normal way of living. And our way of dealing with it is to is to put pharmaceuticals in us to counteract what’s going on. Whereas if we just take a basic, simple approach, just ask ourselves the question, why is this happening? What’s causing it to happen? You can quite easily, you know, reverse the effects of a lot of this. And me personally, since eight years ago, since I made this this kind of health transformation, if you like, you know, my eczema was gone. My asthma’s gone, you know, and it’s been a giant generally been, not just from fitness. It’s been from my diet. It’s been from going back to basics and eating whole nutrient dense food. And it sounds so simple when you when you say that. But it is amazing how, as consumers, we have allowed the food industry to dictate what is good and bad for us. And I think we just have to start taking responsibility for, you know, our own diets. And that might sound a little bit condescending to some people, but we generally have to because we are facing a pandemic, I believe, which is bigger than the one that we’re facing right now. So rather than continuing off on my soapbox, when when you and your husband kind of realize that there is potentially a market for it, for what you discovered, you know, what was your mission and goal for Ossa, you know, you’ve become a big corp. I’d like you to kind of explain to your audience what exactly that means. But what was your mission, your goal for it.

Catherine : So it’s such a brilliant question and it relates exactly to what you said before. My absolute mission was to get people to demand more from supermarket shelves because we’re not dictated to in the way that we eat. And so when we go into the shelf and we see something that says healthy heart health, you know, yellow belts, etc., we just believe it. And so it was an education mission as much as it was a mission to bring about. The gut health revolution and get people to understand they got so that was very much it. It was about people to people understanding their own bodies and what works for them and what doesn’t. And it was about people going back to organic and natural foods. And so when you combine all those three things together, I think already people might think, oh, it’s way too much effort, but I actually manual supermarket trolley.

And I do it all the time when I shop and look at others trolleys. How much are you putting in? It is real food. Sometimes if I only have to go to one section, the fresh produce aisle and then pick up some meat and fish and we incorporate a lot of good fats into our diet, like Crossfade butter’s coconut oil, ghee and tallow. But you shouldn’t be anything in a box. Your nose should be causing a kind of a warning sign.

But for people listening and thinking, OK, you know, my interest is peaked and I want to understand where to stop.What we said Ossa Organic is it’s about kind of breaking things down. So the biggest kind of hurdle to gut health tends to be things like gluten, wheat, dairy. You know, do a little bit of an elimination and start off by removing things from your diet where you know that you eat them and immediately feel unwell. Or just saying, okay, today I’m gonna put two organic things in my basket way before they weren’t organic or this runs. We’re going to work on 30 percent fresh produce and the rest of the stuff can be packaged.

It’s never, ever going to work if you go cold turkey, you have to go one step at a time. And then I think another part of your mix of an individual’s mission to make change where we hope to inspire them is to tackle a problem. So I have eczema, I have asthma, I have flatulence, or I am bothered by the cramps I get in my stomach every time I eat. Think to yourself about what it is that really is making your life uncomfortable and then go on a mission to kind of eliminate that, because I’m sure you must have felt it. And I felt the same to be able to heal your own body when people kind of spend tens of thousands of pounds and so much time with doctors who can’t give the answer to be able to do it yourself.

It is really, really powerful. And so I would say our mission is to help you along, learn more about gut health , learn about things like bone broth. Bone broth is a traditional elixir that’s been around for years. As you mentioned, it is nothing new for for millennia, cultures have been boiling the bones of the of the meat that they eat, the chicken carcass, the beef bones from the stew with a little bit of water and organic vegetables for as long as they can on the hub. And then using that broth or what you might know as stock to cook to drink and to add to soups and stews or as an ingredient in any recipe that calls for a stock cube or something like that.

And broth in itself is so much more than just a stock only because it’s cooked for so much longer at lower heat. And when you do that, what you’re doing is you’re extracting all the amino acids, all the collagen, glycine and gelatin from the animal bones. Now, for people that follow plant based diets and to a vegan, this might not be something that necessarily appeals to them.

But for people that believe, as I do, in the nourishing elements of of animal fats and animal protein in the human diet, especially as we develop in children from pregnancy infants, as their teeth come in, as they take shape, takes place, I believe in the power of of animal fats and the nourishing elements that are good regenerative organic meat can bring to the diet. Then bone broth is something you should really consider because it it does all of that for you and one and it can also add flavor and kind of, you know, a whole different kind of element to it, to your diet. But what it does, first and foremost, is really heals and seals the gut.

And that is once you’ve been inspired enough to make the change the next mission you need to get on, which is OK, I need to make sure that my digestive tract is healed, sealed and strong so that when food I eat food, whether or not it’s a pizza or something much more nourishing, that it stays cleanly in the digestive tract until it hits the stomach, which can be broken down. And that is very much where people are finding problems, is that when you have a compromised gut, you have holes or leaks in the gut. Know, and that’s where food gets through into the bloodstream before it’s gone to the stomach to be broken down. And that manifests in eczema or in fending off the hair or in acne or all sorts of other things that people are dealing with. So it’s an inspiration mission and then it’s practical tips and things that you can use to kind of help you make the change.

Darren: Yeah, I mean, that’s an amazing mission. A couple of things I want to pick out what you just said there, and that is healing the gut. And, you know, you’re right, it is very profound.You know, a lot of people might scoff at this, this idea that you can heal the gut. But it is it, again, is just a basic thing that you can change in your diet, which will start to eat once you have the right nutrients in your in your diet. We start to heal the gut on the gut lining. And, you know, we have this big nerve that goes from the gut to the brain. And one of my big things at the moment is talking about mental health.

Well, if you’ve got a healthy gut, I strongly believe that the the issues that we’re having around mental health and everything else, like because the information on the brains we got bad stuff in anger, will have a profound impact on your mental health. And, you know, for me personally, Catherine, once I started to dial in my diet, it was like somebody had lifted a fog. I had this mental clarity that I’d never experienced in my adult life before. And that’s then set me on this mission to continue to optimize my health because I was that safe when I actually realized what was going on. and for me, I was wow. Just by changing my diet, my mental clarity has just completely changed. What else is it, you know? Can I do now to improve my health? And it’s just sent me off down this amazing path where we can make simple, basic changes and have profound impacts on our health.

Catherine : It’s so important when you say that because men specifically when it comes to mental health, are not kind of as touchy feely as women where we’re kind of meditating or, you know, talking to our friends over a cup of coffee and all of that. And so now more than ever, for men to get rid of that brain fog can be revolutionary in their lives, especially when men of today are working longer hours, parenting more than they ever did before. Fifty per cent, if not more. You really are kind of expected to be all rounded.

Trying to balance the masculine and the feminine energy, which has been completely imbalanced for many years, but kind of coming back now and also trying to be feeling, understanding and emotional as much as they are pragmatic, effective and really powerful at work. And so actually, the the if there was ever a motivation specifically for a man, it’s about the effect of lowering the toxic load on the body, which again, is what you’ve got. And lifting that brain fog. And I’m so glad you talk about that, because my husband talks about the same thing and he said it’s like I’m awake. And it allows you to get up at 6:00 a.m. with the kids and then it allows you to go for your 10K run. And it allows to be good at work on a Monday morning. And no longer do we have to live dampened down and in this kind of like depressed state, because once that brain fog is lifted, everything else becomes clearer.

Darren: It does. And it allows you. Like you said about, you know, getting up with the kids. It allows you to show up as a parent. Way more than you did previously for your children. And the funny thing is for me now, the children can’t wear me out. There’s no way that, you know, if you have a lot of parents who say, oh, I’m just so tired, I have the energy for the kids. No way. There’s no way my kids are wearing me out this just because I have the energy or have the clarity.

And I’m when you have the stresses that we have naturally in life, again, as a as a person, it enables you to deal with them in a much clearer way and take a much more realistic, pragmatic, sensible approach to dealing with these challenges. And, you know, if we just dial it all back again, Catherine just comes back to making these simple changes. And, you know, I can’t stress this enough for people listening. You know, we’re not talking about being a Superman Superwoman or the rescue. We’re just simply talking about simple, basic changes in your diet, which will have a profound effect. And I use this this analogy, you know, with with Fitter Healthier Dad that, you know, fitness and nutrition is just a vehicle to improve all areas of your life. And I genuinely, genuinely believe that because of the impact it’s had on had on me and my life. So, yes, it is quite profound.

Catherine : Really great. I wanted to say, if you don’t mind, if I just I work five things, though, specific to men that I would say would be a great place to start and a small change to make a big difference. So what we’ve gone through before, and that is start to incorporate a cup of bone broth into your diet once a day, if you can, three times a week if you can. And check out Ossa Organic or otherwise, make it yourself. If you’re right, the chicken for the family on a Sunday. Keep the bones. Keep the carcass covered with a little bit of filtered water, Chuck and any leftover veg and boil it overnight or for eight anywhere, anywhere north of eight hours straight.

And often you’ve got your broth. Try sipping on that or cooking with it or adding it to a soup or even called your protein shake. A lot of guys do. Number two, I would say try to lower the toxic load on your body. Now, man might come to me and say, oh, but I don’t really use perfume or I don’t really I don’t wear makeup. And so I’m far less prone to chemicals in natural and beauty products than they know when a woman might be. But it’s stuff like hair gels, face creams. Think about what you putting on your skin. Because remember, now you’re going to take care and you’re going to start thinking about potentially eliminating wheat and dairy as a start. Not forever. Just for now.

Thinking about how you feel off to eat food, drinking bone broth, reading up more on gut health. So you might as well then think about what you’re putting on your skin, which is where most absorption comes from. So if you can buy paraffin and sulfate free hair gels, use a aluminum free for heaven’s sake organic deodorant for men specifically because they tend to use quite a lot of deodorant use bentonite clay if you can put a little bit up on my Instagram. It’s especially powerful for men. I just make a face pack for my husband once a week. If you’re not that way inclined, you can buy an organic clay. Scrabble mosque or something like that, but think about some some of the skin care products that you’re using just to move away from high street brands that have sulfates and parabens. It will have a great effect on your gut.

And then three, if you are highly technology orientated, which men tend to be. Don’t put the laptop, your laptop or any kind of E.M.S. emitting device anyway. You your genitalia. There’s so many men sitting with laptops on their lap the whole entire time. You might already be a dad or you might be looking to have a family one day, or you might be young and dynamic and just, you know, you don’t want to have any E.M.S. and emitting devices near your genitals. And so many men walk around with their phones close on their pockets every single day. Just be aware of that kind of thing or use E.M.S. kind of mitigating devices, which are really, really good.

And then the last two things and you’ve touched on that, do try and get out and exercise if you can. But don’t let it dictate your life. I know a lot of men go very far to the max, the masculine side of things. It’s more a vehicle to have a healthier, better life, less so absolute mission or goal, you know?

And finally, I would say and this is something I’ve tried to encourage with my husband, who’s a 40 something year old dad of seem to be three. So I’ve seen the trials and tribulations that that men go through with parenting and working and and trying to fit it all in. And everything is do try and find a way to take to give yourself head space which men are less good than women. But for my husband, I got him in the sauna three or four times a week for 15 to 20 minutes. And to begin with, he was just twiddling his thumbs and getting irate and leaving after five minutes and getting to hot ,built up to like 15 to 20 minutes. He used that as his appeal is meditation time in inverted commas, because he hasn’t yet grasp the concept of meditate. It doesn’t. It’s not something just yet.

But those five things, as they easy that they practically run off to do them all at once. Just be conscious of them and make small changes in each of the areas. And I think it’s just a practical way to start with your gut health and your mental health and then see how you feel. And hopefully that is inspiration enough to be like, wow, I do feel so much better. I’m less worn out by the kids and now I want to know. And that way, someone like you, Darren, and your podcast comes along just to keep inspiring more and more as as. As the guys get ready for it.

Darren: Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s important that you say, you know, you just make one simple change. And once you you’ve made that change and you realize the impact it has, it will naturally make you inquisitive to want to find out what else you can do and what you said there about getting your husband in the sauna so that he can kind of decompress and calm down. We as men all too often, and I’m completely guilty of this, want to run a life a hundred miles an hour. We want to do everything in 24 hours.

And actually, you know, this this this the phrase of of slowing down to speed up is is quite profound, if you can grasp that. So, you know, if you’re too busy to spend 15 minutes in a sauna, you really have got to stop and take a look and take stock as to why is it you feel that you are too busy to take 15 minutes out for yourself? And I think now more than at any other time, you know, with our health under threat, it is very important for you to kind of recognize and consider that and just say, look, I’m going to take 15 minutes out for myself, whether that’s, you know, meditation, whether that’s just going out for a walk, you know, like you say, staying away from all these electronics or missing EMF’s. And I think that is most definitely a podcast on its own when we’re talking about five EMF’s cause that’s..

Catherine : Yes. Let us know that you or not go down that path.

Darren:  Yeah. Let’s not start on that.

Catherine : I think that the the the masculine side of things is very much like I’m weak if I rest. And my husband. And I’ll never forget. We’ve worked. You know, I’ve kind of tried to I had a very masculine tendency when I came into the marriage. And so we tried to both help each other out to find a really good balance, because a marriage in itself is hard work. And so for me, it was about he had to crash a few times before he realized the strength and rest. And so it was fascinating when. And it’s again, that I think the way that men are programmed is why it’s so powerful for them to learn this way. Was he once he had two crashes and I was battling the kids were battling and everything, and he obviously wasn’t alright. He then realized every single day, I have to do something to mitigate my stress levels. Otherwise I’m shouting at the kids. I’m shouting at my people at work. And so what is that? And so I’m not telling you that the sauna is your thing, but I’m saying find your thing and know that that by go. He knows that if he goes sauna, or does his 15 minutes run or walk, or is what runs longer than that?

But he takes that that brain time that he is empowered in every other area of his life. He only learned that by doing it because I think I told him that for years. And so I think if you take one thing away from the podcast today, it’s just to try and then see how you feel and what comes from it will help with the change. But man, especially to slow down is often seen as weak. And I think that’s something that I hope Covid or Korona has really shown people that you can be as efficient, that creativity, opportunity and real. You know, like I would I would be fascinated to hear from your listeners whether anyone’s come up with a business idea or completely pivoted and revolutionized something that they do will completely revolutionize their marriage or their relationship with their kids. Yeah. Because we’ve given ourselves time to think.

Darren: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I’m yeah, that’s what this has given us at no other time since I’ve been alive. Have we had the opportunity to really stop and reflect and take stock of where we’re at with our lives. So yeah, definitely take take this this time and use it. Well, I want to do Catherine. I’d like to go back to what we were talking about previously about veganism because and this can be quite a bit of a controversial topic right now. But but I just want to kind of talk about it and I want to talk about it from the perspective of, you know, it is grown so much in its popularity right now. But for me personally and I want to try and convey to people listening, is that I believe strongly that it’s not about veganism, it’s not about paleo, it’s not about keto. The reason I feel that veganism has become so popular are two things, really.

Number one is obviously you’ve got the environmental impact and I get that. So I want to kind of set that bit aside. What I want to try and address is the fact that people are hailing veganism as this all new kind of dietary phenomenon, which is going to revolutionize our health and everything else in the area. I want to kind of delve into is the fact that it’s yes, it’s valid. But also my concern is the fact of moving removing one big food group from your diet, I believe, is potentially detrimental to your health.

Now, there will be people listening to this who will be absolutely disagreeing. And I think you actually need to come up a level. And I think what the issue is and the reason why veganism has become so popular is because modern farming methods mean that we are now less likely to get all of the nutrients that we need from the foods are being produced. And what I specifically mean by that is that around meat, because of our demand as a human race for me in the Western world, it’s become such that farmers have had to mass produce meat, which has meant that they’ve done it in ways which weren’t traditional by using drugs and all the rest of it, which has meant that’s fed into the food chain.

And therefore people are now assuming that the meat makes you sick. Well, I don’t subscribe to that. I subscribe to the fact that we need to look at where you’re the source of your food as opposed to removing a food group. So obviously, your you. I would imagine, and correct me if I’m wrong, that you are going to be sitting in the camp where, you know, meat, meat products and are very valid in our diets for the amino acids and everything else. But where do you stand on that?

Catherine : That’s a lovely question and it’s a brave one as well. But I think we need to be talking about this. And I love the way that you said, let’s take it a level up. We all know why and what and how. And so where I stand, and this is my personal opinion, is very much in agreement with everything you’ve just said. First and foremost, the way in which we are farming meat today is not acceptable. It’s come as a.. Exactly as you said, as a way to supply a demand at a very low cost. And we all know that quality fails when that equation is being put in that way. So I am massively a proponent of regenerative and sustainable farming. And I guess that allows me to answer your question as to where we fit in with B Corp.

We’re a big corporation business, which means that everything we do is for the best of the of the greater good, the environment, the climate and kind of the ecosystem which includes animals. And so I think that if we all start to support causes that bring farming back to traditional methods, that. We are farming with respect, with care and using, you know, the kind of age old thing of the life cycle, the kind of the fact that, you know, the bugs eat, the rest of us eat the bugs, that, you know, that whole circle of life. Because I can tell you now that we would not be here today if as a human race, we did not know how to respectfully kill animals and use their hiders, walk for warmth and shelter, use their fat to nourish ourselves.

And also, I mean, one of my favorite things ever is that the blood of of seals and the fat of cows, which now today we know is tallow, was smeared all over the skins of babies and young children when it was very cold because it act like a blanket. And so if we’re nose to tail consuming with respect, I just think that there is there is absolutely not a place and necessity for meat in the diet, for the development of the human body.

And now I know that might that might shock some people and they might think I’m coming from a place of bias. Well, I’m not. I eat at 80 percent plant base for many years in my youth. I’m an African born soul child person. So that means that if I don’t. I’m not saying everyone should eat the way that I do. But I know based on my genealogy and my ancestors that we grew up hunting and eating meat and my blood type, my, my my whole system is based on on on that way of eating. And I know that about myself. So when I ate 80 percent plant based, I had very bad skin. I carried a lot of weight in the face area, which is a very big sign of inflammation in the body where where that body is lean.

But the actual face carries a lot of weight. My teeth started to change. So you’ll see with a lot of vegans and it and it’s not six months in or one year in weight where you hear these stories of people’s whole life being revolutionized and they so thin, then they feel so good. It’s it’s vegans at three years, five years and eight years where the Teeth starts to change, the hair starts to thin. And so that’s the kind of case study that I’m interested in, is how sustainable is it for the long run. And so from after those those couple of years living that way, I was desperately uncomfortable. I was constantly bloated. And actually, I’m very grateful for that time because it was in the fifth year where I ate to Apple in between classes at university and my stomach swelled up like a balloon.

And I thought something is very, very wrong. And that’s how I found my journey back to nourishing myself through through through animals, animal fats and meat. And I also think I’ve seen a lot of case studies with women. And so I’m speaking now specifically for from a feminine point of view, women that are trying to conceive or that are trying to sustain a pregnancy. I’ve had a lot of very open conversations with vegan woman who feel embarrassed or shy to say that their body craves meat so distinctly in pregnancy that then they would just have to start off contacting me and getting some broth because it was a very gentle way to get meat or what it is they felt they were craving for meat into the body.

So there’s that whole argument. At the end of the day, I think we all have to listen to our bodies. I’m a massive follower of Western A. Price Foundation. He was a dentist back in the day and I’ve spoken about it earlier. He studied tribes, especially the men who used to go to Hunt, and they needed the stamina and the energy. And he’s looked at the way that they developed on a meat on it, because most of these tribes are carnivorous. They eat mostly meat a lot of fruit and seeds in the winter. And so it was in the summer sorry. It was about, um, how they how their jawline and their teeth. There was no need for dentistry. The teeth were perfectly straight.

The jaw was always well formed. Today we’ve got I grew up with children in my class wearing headgear, braces around their entire head, having their chins cracked to realign the lower jaw because the jaw hadn’t formed. These are all as a result of some form of malnourishment in the body. And this dentist would go on to say that it is the absolute the deep nutrients that that meat and fat from animals can provide. That gives us that kind of character profile on the really well developed teeth, jaw, skin, hair, digestive system, etc..

That is my thinking. I’ve I’ve toyed with it myself. I again tried just before we conceived our third child to to cut meat out of my diet out of interest. And it did not bode well for me. So let’s look at ourselves, as we said, to begin with, Darren. And we are all individual. And certainly, if you are a proponent of a plant based diet and you believe in veganism, tried out for yourself and look at the markers, look at one year, three year and then five years, look at things like your teeth, your hair, the way that you feel fatigue. Are you able to get up in the morning? Are you fit enough to manage your children, etc.? But also, please, if you are that way inclined. Especially if you’re a man to take serious advice, because the thing that makes me most afraid and you touched on it earlier. If you’re cutting out an entire food group, I would never, ever say that at an elimination diet is good in any way. So why would you then cut out one whole food group? Number one, you mentioned it.

And number two, the way that we are crop farming today is dangerous. So even organic fruit has splashed back. Of pesticides and chemical. And so if you’re not eating organic and you are not sure of things like the fact that corn is probably the most genetically modified, you know, you produce on the market today, I won’t even let my kids have it. And you are basing your diet on all of these things. You need to be very, very, very clever about GMO. Are you detoxing? Are you using things like Trella and Charcoal to remove pesticides and all sorts of chemicals from the body? And how clued in on are you on making up a vegan diet in terms to match what you’d be lacking from animal protein? I don’t judge. Like you. I really don’t. I think everyone has to listen to their own body.

From my own experience, from raising children, carrying children, being a wife and working in there, and the kind of space whereby I see people who suffer from gut compromised, compromised guts and really difficult disease, I feel there is a strong place for meat, but it has to be done the right way. It’s it’s tricky, isn’t it?

Darren: Yeah, definitely. It is tricky. And I think I, I completely agree. You know, it comes back to the basics. We said at the beginning of the episode when we were talking about how consumers we are led by packaging. You know that by stop and reflecting and knowing your own body, you can make common sense changes in accordance with how you’re feeling. So, for example, you know, if you if you change to a vegan diet and your mood changes, you know, that could be a contributing factor to the fact you change your diet. I mean, I I’ve just recently worked with a guy, Catherine, who because of his his wife’s views, they switched as a family to a vegan diet.

And when this guy came to me, he was absolutely ruined from an energy perspective, from an anxiety perspective. And when we looked at his diet, he was having less than 15 percent protein in his diet. And he was having more than 70 percent carbohydrates. Well, you know, that doesn’t even not even need to do with veganism. That’s to do with the fact that he just got a completely unbalanced macro nutrient ratio in his diet and that was having profound impacts on him. And he was a young guy. Now, he was 36 years old. But by not monitoring yourself and not understanding your own body before you make that change. You know, you can do. You can do yourself some serious some damage, not long term damage, obviously, but you can have some profound impacts. So, yeah, I agree.

Catherine : Mood or anxiety and mood and anxiety, which you mentioned are over arching and, you know, especially for men because it’s… A woman, we’ll be like, oh, you know, we’re more in tune because we have menstrual cycles. And so we understand our moods because we have to. But I think that is such an overarching warning sign. And today, because you men and women that we and we’re all a little bit dumbed down, so not enough people are in tune enough. Yeah, it could if that guy didn’t have you wincing out to him, those things, I bet you he he could have gone five years without realizing. Actually, I am moody and I’m feeling really anxious.

So that’s a brilliant tip. Just try. Every morning. I always say put your feet flat on the ground on grass if you can, which is quite rare. I’m in London, but just fell flat on the ground barefoot and stand like in a warrior position. Shoulders, belt, squeeze the abs and just go. Okay. I’m literally taking a beam of light, scanning it from the top of my head down to my toes and back up again. What is bugging me? And that’s where hopefully people will have my left arm saw my shoulder. I’ve got my lower back. And then go and…There’s millions of holistic ways to seek help. But just always people like you. We need to people like you where men can relate to you and come to you and say, yeah, I’m really anxious. That’s not normal. And that’s what we need to be inspiring people. Not in jobs, and stop hiding on the idea that if that’s all, everyone’s tired on.

Darren: Yeah, definitely, and I think for me, Catherine, this is the next stage was. Sorry, I was going to say that the next stage for someone in that condition is then to go down the pharmaceutical route. And again, this is a whole other topic that we could go off on a tangent on. But, you know, once you start down that route of pharmaceuticals and then becoming dependent on them, you know, that’s that’s a, you know, a kind of a a path you don’t necessarily want or need to go down. And it can all be avoided by just kind of knowing yourself and understanding yourself and let you say to having that that reflection time.So in terms of children

Catherine : I don’t blame anyone who would go that route. Sorry we keep overlapping.

Darren: Sorry we were overlapping there, what were you saying?

Catherine : I don’t blame anyone that goes down the pharmaceutical route because we are conditioned and that’s what we’ve been taught. And, you know, my parents, it was very much like that growing up, like if you got a headache, take a pill. And you. I heard you were just about to say children. And I’d love to get onto that topic next. But that is the biggest inspiration to moms and dads, is get your children to understand their own bodies, first and foremost. They don’t come to you and cry and say, I’ve got. I’m crying, cry and cry, cry. My children come to me and they say in my left knee, it feels like it’s behind the thing. It’s aching. Or, you know, I feel like my brain is aching because I haven’t drank water.

To make those connections helps us steer away from going down the pharmaceutical route. And I think that is a big awakening at present where hopefully the likes of you and I are showing people that that they that whilst there is a drug produced to make everything better. It’s the wrong pill to take. Like, it’s the wrong road because it only ends up in more pain, more symptoms and more vision.

Darren: Yeah, definitely, definitely. And, you know, it is awareness and education, isn’t it? And again, I don’t want to sound like I’m preaching, but is is relatively straightforward once you have that awareness. And I just think, you know, the awareness is key. So in terms of children and incorporating bone broth into their lives, now with my boys, I have tried to be the model parent. I tried to get them to to take bone broth. They’re having none of it. But the thing that I love about bone broth is that when you’re making a  meal, you can really easily incorporate that into the kids dinners. And they got no idea that you put it in there. And actually, it makes a lot of dinners, tastes way more tasty than they would ordinarily. So have you got any tips for parents listening, know how they can incorporate this? Because this is only good for the children and their diets.

Catherine : Absolutely, we got some brilliant ones we figured out over the years. So the first is the basic spaghetti. We love it here. We use it. Spaghetti. So because we don’t we tried to avoid gluten and we get a really good mince. I buy from an organic meat box business actually called green pasture farms. I absolutely love the meat that they do. And I get a subscription box once a month. And basically the mince what we’ll do is we will slow cook that mince and eat one or even two pouches of bone broth with a whole bunch of vegetables that we’ve sauteed in a little bit of ghee or butter. And that is absolutely delicious.

The kids will will sat down with with their rice noodles, and that works a treat also from the set from the same farm. Actually, I buy these amazing gluten free sausages. So they’re like ninety nine or 100 percent meat. Because if you don’t know, most sausages will contain breadcrumbs or some kind of gluten, a stuffing and the sausage will probably be 30 to 40 percent meat. So it’s a brilliant hack because the sausages are delicious. They love sausages, but we broil them. So that means that you put them in a shallow frying pan and you fill you cover the sausages up half way with bone broth and you put it on a very low heat and the broth goes to almost like a like a gravy.

So sausages and gravy. And I’ll serve that with broccoli and a big dollop of sweet potato or white potato mash. And that goes down really well. Another treat as well. All this week, we try and stick to kind of non-inflammatory grains or carbohydrates or white rice is a good example. And we will steam the white rice in a pouch of beef bone broth as opposed to water. And that works in absolute charm. The same with broccoli, a broccoli and a tiny little bit of broth. And then the all the green water that we normally chuck that I try and put in my pot plants or whatever from broccoli goes into the bone broth and then I’ll use that bone broth back into the rice or something like that.

So broccoli is a really good one. And then another one that really works quite well. But you have to kind of tweak the recipe is, you know, frozen blueberry, Greek yogurt, a little bit of raw honey, if you like. We don’t really use it occasionally. You know, anything, any anything else that’s appealing. Frozen bananas, strawberries, whatever, and a little bit of bone broth. And then you actually blend that into like a smoothie mix and freeze it into ice lolly cubicles and particle things. And it’s a broth ice lolly. But you never know. Never know the difference. And it’s a lovely little often like little treats. And then we do like an eggy rice again.

So we’ll break in three or four really beautiful free range eggs into the broth, the rice that’s been steamed in the broth and stir through. And it makes like an egg fried Chinese rice, which is absolutely lovely. And the last one I’ll mention is is one of their favorites with which we call brutels, and that is we buy a thick flat like pad Thai rice, organic rice noodles, which you can find a lot of supermarkets or out of health stores or Whole Foods or whatever. I mean, I found them at Waitrose and you basically boil those until they’re soft in the broth and you add a dollop of ghee for it because it makes it very, very creamy. And then you serve it almost like a lack of pho.

But but the broth is, you suttee it down a little bit and you can put strips of chicken, any veg that they like. Or if I was having a really bad day, I’ll just give them. I’ll actually even put a dollop of collagen powder in there as well for people that are familiar with collagen. It’s really good for the kids as they grow. And so are you. And then that makes a very creamy, meaty, basically plain noodle dish. But it’s packed full of protein, packed full of fats. And then if you add the collagen packed full of more collagen. So, yeah, that’s just a couple of weird and wonderful ways that we that we use at home. If you could eat soup, you can put it in soup as well. Mine haven’t quite mastered the soup eating yet.

Darren: Right..Yeah, no, that’s that’s great. I mean, it’s fantastic because it’s you know, it it’s good for them. It’s good for their development. And, you know, ordinarily kids don’t often get the stuff that’s good for them, don’t recognize or understand why it’s good for them. So to be able together in in the back door, so to speak, so that they can’t they can’t tell what it is. But actually, you know, living with my two is when I asked them what their meal was, I said, oh, that that was really tasty. I like this because I put stuff in it that you don’t tell me that you don’t like. So. Yeah. Yeah. then. So, Catherine, you on the Web site, you’ve got a 14 day gap reset program. Can you give us a little bit more insight as to what that is and how people can get that?

Catherine : Yeah, sure. So there’s a link on the website that tells you a bit more. And basically what we’ve done is a lot of the things that you and I have discussed here today, it’s kind of summarized in a in a in a long document that also has a two week recipe plan with a couple of the things I’ve mentioned on quite a lot more. But what it what it sets out to do is to help you understand how gut health spans across not only what you eat, but also what you put in the body, all the things we’ve discussed today, which have been really fascinating. It shows you different ways as how to make those changes.

And it includes things like barfing in Epsom salts, which I also got my husband to start doing after long runs or after heavy like weightlifting sessions and stuff like I don’t think enough men do that kind of healing side of things. So talks a lot about that, which is really interesting. It’s got all sorts of interesting recipes. And then it also just gives you insight into what small changes you can make and hard to monitor how you feel. And it comes with 100 pounds worth of products.

So two weeks worth of broths, soups, apple cider vinegar tonics and some fats like a ghee or tallow for cooking. And it’s a crash introductory course in gut health without being a diet or without being a pushy, restrictive protocol. It is a nourishing protocol. It’s about eating things like collagen pancakes in the morning. My kids absolutely love. But you. Because you’ll you’ll agree with me, Darren, what we’re talking about with gut health and optimal self and all that is not about a diet. It’s not about denying yourself of anything. I’ve never eaten more nourishing, nutrient dense, fat fueled, organic, beautiful food in my life. And so it’s about as very gentle, not into how to feel better and heart to look better. And hopefully, like we’ve been saying this, this this whole time, that once you get a flavor of how you feel after just two weeks, that you just are inspired to make it a lifestyle change because it is very, very difficult for men and women, especially when we get to like where we’ve got grown kids. We we in our 40s were approaching 40. Or even if you passed 20, you’re in your 30s, like you to make life changes is huge.

So it’s a nice way to just start off gently and see how you go, because I will never say to anyone that’s like making a change that they failed because it’s really, really hard. And that’s what one of the quotes is in the gut reset, which is like it’s really hard doing hard things.

Darren: Yeah, absolutely. I can agree more. And again, I like the fact that, you know, you picked up on the point about not a diet. A diet implies that you’re going to do something for a period of time and then you’re going to revert back to how you used to. And, you know, like you say, being on a restrictive type of modality, if you like, as a human, that’s that will never work in. And you will. Nine times out of ten, you revert back. And in many ways, you’ll revert back. Worse than when you started. So definitely it’s about making these these small but effective lifestyle changes.

So, Catherine, in terms of products that you’ve got at the moment and new products that you’re potentially working on, can you give us some insight into that as well?

Catherine : Yeah, absolutely, I’m absolutely, so excited to be working a lot more with tallow than I was ever before. Lots of people are very confused by what tallow is and a little bit like just not too sure of it. But if you think back, everyone should have a memory of their granny having fat or lard. lard is the fat from a pig and tallow is the fat from beef or a cow. But my granny had a glass jar of lard and tallow in the pantry that she cooked all of our chips in. And every time she made us tallow potato chips, she would they would they would strain the fat and put it back in the pantry. If you have any memory of that. But that’s what my granny did.

And the day, you know, people we say are chips or chips are so bad for you. Yeah. If you go to the High Street and buy Donalds chips, you are taking you information markers off the charts for one reason alone. A, they’re probably not using organic potatoes, but B,there are deep frying those potatoes in a highly inflammatory genetically modified rapeseed or sunflower seed oil. And that is where the problem is. So if MacDonald started tomorrow making organic tallow chips, you would find me there and I would be buying them for my children as well, because it’s not about fat and potatoes being bad about the different, The poor quality of cheap fat that we’ve been sold to buy.

And so that’s Extel extends to so many different uses back in the day again. Traditionally, people used to use tallow, shaving soap, tallow bombs, tallow candles, teller hand cream, you name it. And so we are finding our sales of tallow are really rocketing because men specifically, hilariously are the biggest purchases of our tallow because they either are following a strict keto or paleo diet, but also that they are trying to work with inflammation markers and a lot of them are making their own soaps and shaving balms. And so that’s something we are looking to try to do to help men move away from the high street products, which are highly toxic.

They say that men’s hair gel is one of the most highly toxic things, kind of beauty products available on the market. Sometimes in the olden days, you can just smell your hair gel. If it gives you an instant headache, throw it in the bin. There’s a lot of I don’t know what’s in there, but, you know, so we’re trying to work a lot more with tallow and bring back the way that things used to be done with it, where people were using tallow for cooking, browning meats making Emollients for four lotions, cracked Heal’s dry skin, eczema, candles, you name it. So watch this space and that satellite uses for tallow extends across the whole family.

Like my second son had a lot of eczema and we couldn’t get to the bottom of it. And it’s obviously turned out to be gut health and all of that. But that any emollient and even the most gentle, most well marketed ones on the market, we’re not we’re making it skin inflamed. And in the end, I started to mix tallow with coconut oil and it is eczema. Obviously, I worked on the gut as well, but we got rid of it before we even turned six months old. And I don’t know, for those of you that don’t know, for children that are showing eczema as an outward manifestation of a gut problem if you don’t get the eczema out. So that doesn’t mean dampen it down by using cortisone or steroid cream, because all that does is push the toxin back in.

If you don’t heal and pull that eczema inflammation out after the age of three years, that child will, sounds like you had to deal with eczema until they are adults and they’re able to then to undo it, which what you’ve done is very, very, very hard. So, yeah. So that’s kind of what we’re turning our attention to. We’ve got some cool, different broths coming out. And yeah, there’s all sorts of interesting stuff. So watch this space and hopefully we can we can just inspire you to make to make one change.

Darren: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, I think I think your products are fantastic.

I have had to get a bigger freezer because I now buy in bulk and, you know, I incorporate into my diet every single day now. And I just know that, you know, it not only does it taste nice as far as I’m concerned, the fact that I’m able to get decent nutrients into my body from food for me is just, you know, that that’s the whole holy grail as far as I’m concerned. And I know, you know, that it’s helping with my connective tissue and just my overall general gut health.

So, Catherine, it’s been amazing talking to you today. But before we wrap up, is there anything that I didn’t ask you that you felt I should have asked you that would benefit the listeners?

Catherine : Darren, I think we covered everything and we were brave enough to venture down the meat versus plant based, and I was just delighted to dig a little into into gut health. I was really happy to share five, you know, proactive and simple tips that that men, women and children can take. And we also cover children, which are so important because I think a lot of podcasts, we our chat to people, everyone. There’s this old fashioned way of thinking where the child doesn’t shouldn’t be eating the same food as the adult and they should be eating kids’ things.

And so if if there was going to be anything that was left out, I would say it was that. But it wasn’t. And I really appreciate it.

And I would say today, treat your children as if they are the brightest, most wisest people you have ever met because they know so much more than we give them credit for. And the more we nourish them and the more we give them nutritional, healthy, low inflammation, organic food now, the stronger and wiser they’re going to be. And it’s this generation by generation change that’s going to help heal us as a human race.

And so now I think we really covered everything. And thank you so much for that.

Darren: No. That’s amazing what you just said there as he gave me goose bumps, because it is we are so responsible for our children.

And as parents, we do obviously love them, want to grow up to be the best that they can be. But all too often do we impose our own filter on them as opposed to letting them be the amazing little people that they can be. So, yeah, I think that was an amazing thing to say and a great way to finish. So, Catherine, how can people connect with you? Where can they go and find you? And you’ve got some great social media profiles.

Yeah. We’re at Ossa Organic. O double S,A, which is Latin for bone. And that’s where you can find out all about gut health and learn more about Ossa’s journey to inspiring people to change and be better. And so if gut health is something you want to learn about more. Go straight there. And then my own personal handle is @catherine_farrat. And that is where I am,  have just started because it, I had to be quite brave, quite scary.

I’m sure you feel the same putting yourself out there when when we are talking about stuff that a lot of people think is probably quite weird. I don’t know. That’s and that’s why I talk about different types of bio hacks, anything from spirituality to how to be more optimal in your day to day life, how to lower the toxic load. And that’s more kind of fun daily bio hacks, where people can connect and learn interesting stuff. So, yeah, have a follow. And if there’s anything anyone wants to know, then please do get in touch to me because I love hearing from people and I love hearing what people think about what we’re saying and and learning kind of from the audience as much as they do from us.

Darren: Yeah. Amazing.Well Catherine. Thank you very much again for coming on the podcast.Good luck with your third arrival. But I hope I hope we get to speak before then.

Catherine : Thanks, Darren. It was an absolute pleasure. I enjoyed it.

Darren: Thank you. Take care.

Catherine : Bye.

Darren: Thanks for listening to the Fitter Healthier Dad Podcast. If you enjoy today’s episode, please subscribe. And I would really appreciate if you could leave a review on iTunes all the things mentioned in the episode will be in the show notes and a full transcription is over at fitterhealthierdad.com